Inboard suspension
08-05-2004, 01:19 PM
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Inboard suspension
Does anyone know where I can find knuckles, bell cranks and the coil over for inboard doublewishbone setup like this ?
Cause I can't find such thing anywhere.
Thanks.
Cause I can't find such thing anywhere.
Thanks.
08-05-2004, 01:22 PM
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Re: Inboard suspension (TeamSlowdotOrg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LOL
Seriously? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Serious, inboard suspension on mid engine civic
Seriously? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Serious, inboard suspension on mid engine civic
08-05-2004, 01:26 PM
#4
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Re: Inboard suspension (TeamSlowdotOrg)
its so he can get his car to do this 
Why not run down to your local one-stop automotive stop and pick up some aluminum ignots & a copy of autoCAD?
Why not run down to your local one-stop automotive stop and pick up some aluminum ignots & a copy of autoCAD?
08-05-2004, 01:29 PM
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Re: Inboard suspension (Greyout)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its so he can get his car to do this
Why not run down to your local one-stop automotive stop and pick up some aluminum ignots & a copy of autoCAD?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Man look if your not going to help me out dont respond please.
Why not run down to your local one-stop automotive stop and pick up some aluminum ignots & a copy of autoCAD?
</TD></TR></TABLE>Man look if your not going to help me out dont respond please.
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08-05-2004, 01:42 PM
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Re: Inboard suspension (Greyout)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Why not run down to your local one-stop automotive stop and pick up some aluminum ignots & a copy of autoCAD?</TD></TR></TABLE>
bwhaahah
Why not run down to your local one-stop automotive stop and pick up some aluminum ignots & a copy of autoCAD?
</TD></TR></TABLE>bwhaahah
08-05-2004, 01:42 PM
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Re: Inboard suspension (Tyson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its all custom fab. find a shop, have it all forged, machined and welded. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I think the knuckle/hub piece is sold.
I think the knuckle/hub piece is sold.
08-05-2004, 02:03 PM
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Re: Inboard suspension (C-Zero)
Honestly if you have no experience with this at all, and do not know where to source the components from, then you probably shouldnt be attempting to implement it on a production tub.
If think you will quickly find that it such a design is a very, very poor ROI for a car that just does not need it.
If think you will quickly find that it such a design is a very, very poor ROI for a car that just does not need it.
08-05-2004, 02:09 PM
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Re: Inboard suspension (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honestly if you have no experience with this at all, and do not know where to source the components from, then you probably shouldnt be attempting to implement it on a production</TD></TR></TABLE>
Did'nt say I was doing it, I just want to know where I can find the parts.
This is not how to do inboard doublewish bone on your civic thread.
Did'nt say I was doing it, I just want to know where I can find the parts.
This is not how to do inboard doublewish bone on your civic thread.
08-05-2004, 03:36 PM
#18
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Re: Inboard suspension (C-Zero)
you can go to any open wheel or formula sportscar manufacturer and buy parts separately. such as lola, van diemen or whatever. i guarantee you whatever they sell as replacement parts, is not going to be affordable. any other option is custom fab.
08-05-2004, 04:50 PM
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Re: Inboard suspension (C-Zero)
There are different ways to go with that kind of thing. A "true" rocker arm uses a huge arm that literally acts as a teeter-totter with the pivot somewhere between the upright and an inboard mounted coilover unit.
The system in your pics is a "pushrod and bellcrank" affair, with that link running from the bottom of the upright to a pivoted link, then to the coilover. It is also possible to have a pullrod system where that long diagonal rod is in tension - pulling - rather than compression. Some IRL cars use one, some the other but I can't remember which does which.
It's hard to tell but that tub-chassis Honda might use a direct bellcrank set-up, with a bigger version of that little pivoting thingie in the formula car suspensions.
In any case, all of these parts are either (a) expense enough that you would crap your pants to find out how much, or (b) hand made by people who really know how to build stuff. Just the aero-spec rod ends will break a mere mortal.
This is going to generate a lot of mirth out there but you can learn a LOT about how these systems work with LEGO Technic systems. When I taught my junior high robotics class, I modeled both rocker and pushrod suspensions for my kids to play with. You can play with motion ratios, arm lengths and - if you add a link simulating a steering tie rod, you can learn pretty much everything there is to know about bumpsteer.
K
The system in your pics is a "pushrod and bellcrank" affair, with that link running from the bottom of the upright to a pivoted link, then to the coilover. It is also possible to have a pullrod system where that long diagonal rod is in tension - pulling - rather than compression. Some IRL cars use one, some the other but I can't remember which does which.
It's hard to tell but that tub-chassis Honda might use a direct bellcrank set-up, with a bigger version of that little pivoting thingie in the formula car suspensions.
In any case, all of these parts are either (a) expense enough that you would crap your pants to find out how much, or (b) hand made by people who really know how to build stuff. Just the aero-spec rod ends will break a mere mortal.
This is going to generate a lot of mirth out there but you can learn a LOT about how these systems work with LEGO Technic systems. When I taught my junior high robotics class, I modeled both rocker and pushrod suspensions for my kids to play with. You can play with motion ratios, arm lengths and - if you add a link simulating a steering tie rod, you can learn pretty much everything there is to know about bumpsteer.
K
08-05-2004, 04:52 PM
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Re: Inboard suspension (Knestis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are different ways to go with that kind of thing. A "true" rocker arm uses a huge arm that literally acts as a teeter-totter with the pivot somewhere between the upright and an inboard mounted coilover unit.
The system in your pics is a "pushrod and bellcrank" affair, with that link running from the bottom of the upright to a pivoted link, then to the coilover. It is also possible to have a pullrod system where that long diagonal rod is in tension - pulling - rather than compression. Some IRL cars use one, some the other but I can't remember which does which.
It's hard to tell but that tub-chassis Honda might use a direct bellcrank set-up, with a bigger version of that little pivoting thingie in the formula car suspensions.
In any case, all of these parts are either (a) expense enough that you would crap your pants to find out how much, or (b) hand made by people who really know how to build stuff. Just the aero-spec rod ends will break a mere mortal.
This is going to generate a lot of mirth out there but you can learn a LOT about how these systems work with LEGO Technic systems. When I taught my junior high robotics class, I modeled both rocker and pushrod suspensions for my kids to play with. You can play with motion ratios, arm lengths and - if you add a link simulating a steering tie rod, you can learn pretty much everything there is to know about bumpsteer.
K</TD></TR></TABLE>
The system in your pics is a "pushrod and bellcrank" affair, with that link running from the bottom of the upright to a pivoted link, then to the coilover. It is also possible to have a pullrod system where that long diagonal rod is in tension - pulling - rather than compression. Some IRL cars use one, some the other but I can't remember which does which.
It's hard to tell but that tub-chassis Honda might use a direct bellcrank set-up, with a bigger version of that little pivoting thingie in the formula car suspensions.
In any case, all of these parts are either (a) expense enough that you would crap your pants to find out how much, or (b) hand made by people who really know how to build stuff. Just the aero-spec rod ends will break a mere mortal.
This is going to generate a lot of mirth out there but you can learn a LOT about how these systems work with LEGO Technic systems. When I taught my junior high robotics class, I modeled both rocker and pushrod suspensions for my kids to play with. You can play with motion ratios, arm lengths and - if you add a link simulating a steering tie rod, you can learn pretty much everything there is to know about bumpsteer.
K</TD></TR></TABLE>
08-05-2004, 05:20 PM
#21
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Re: Inboard suspension (C-Zero)
None of what you're looking for is off the shelf. Some suspension engineer would have spent many hours on a solid modeling package to come up with a system that would work. Then, each part is CNC machined to his specs. Hence, unless you know someone who might have worked on such a project, then your chances of finding this stuff is very remote at best.
08-05-2004, 06:09 PM
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Re: Inboard suspension (Johnny Mac)
Yup, sorry to join the raining-on-your-dreams parade, but the above is all correct. It's going to be very, very expensive. I made my own front rocker suspension (along with the rest of the car) because I know dang well I can't afford a $100,000 one-off custom Mini.
Oh dang, wait... I have just the place for you: http://www.emachineshop.com/
You download free CAD software, draw up your parts, the sw quotes you a price, you e-mail them the file and they make them on their CNC machines. No kidding... and it'll cost a fortune regardless.
You have to understand too, that fabing it is the easy part... do you have suspension design software? How do you know what to ask for? Do you realize that even if you find someone who has this stuff on the shelf, that it'll work in only one configuration, theirs? What is that configuration? How could you know?
Really, seriously, spend a good solid year reading design books before doing anything... that's what I did.
Oh dang, wait... I have just the place for you: http://www.emachineshop.com/
You download free CAD software, draw up your parts, the sw quotes you a price, you e-mail them the file and they make them on their CNC machines. No kidding... and it'll cost a fortune regardless.
You have to understand too, that fabing it is the easy part... do you have suspension design software? How do you know what to ask for? Do you realize that even if you find someone who has this stuff on the shelf, that it'll work in only one configuration, theirs? What is that configuration? How could you know?
Really, seriously, spend a good solid year reading design books before doing anything... that's what I did.
08-05-2004, 06:16 PM
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Re: Inboard suspension (kb58)
If you want to do a mid-engine car, just transplant the entire FWD drivetrain, suspension and all, into the back of the car. See my website.
08-05-2004, 06:39 PM
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Re: Inboard suspension (kb58)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kb58 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want to do a mid-engine car, just transplant the entire FWD drivetrain, suspension and all, into the back of the car. See my website.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats what I'm doing.
Thats what I'm doing.
08-05-2004, 07:37 PM
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Re: Inboard suspension (Knestis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When I taught my junior high robotics class...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Junior high robotics?! Damn I was lucky if I had algebra back in junior high. Damn rich kids and their damn...advanced elementary education...
About custom suspensions, you need modeling software to draw what you want and create an assembly of parts, then import that into a motion simulator (ADAMS) to see how it will work, and then CNC it, and then do it over when you screw the entire thing up cuz you welded two pieces together wrong and the car breaks.
Also, think about what kind of forces/stresses said components will see. FEA and the like would also be a good idea. So how many $1000s is that in just software?
Junior high robotics?! Damn I was lucky if I had algebra back in junior high. Damn rich kids and their damn...advanced elementary education...
About custom suspensions, you need modeling software to draw what you want and create an assembly of parts, then import that into a motion simulator (ADAMS) to see how it will work, and then CNC it, and then do it over when you screw the entire thing up cuz you welded two pieces together wrong and the car breaks.
Also, think about what kind of forces/stresses said components will see. FEA and the like would also be a good idea. So how many $1000s is that in just software?
