Go Back   Honda-Tech > Honda and Acura Technical Forums > Road Racing/Autocross & Time Attack
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search


Welcome to Honda-Tech!
Welcome to Honda-Tech.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Honda-Tech community today!


Reply
 
 
 
submit to reddit
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-05-2008, 05:19 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
young noob #2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: stafford, va, U.S.
Posts: 127
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS??

hey guys I am trying to figure out the size tires I should get for my ep3, I know the cars have a problem rotating so I was going to do a staggered wheel set-up of 235-40-17 and 215-45-17, I am not worried about throwing off my speedo a few mph, but I have read that this can affect your ABS, my last car didn't have ABS so can anyone shed any light on this please? thanks all I appreciate it
young noob #2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2008, 06:46 PM   #2
Honda-Tech Member
 
racebum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,860
iTrader Rating: (0)
Racebum
Send a message via AIM to racebum Send a message via Yahoo to racebum
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (young noob #2)

the only car i have raced where this was a problem was the C5, it uses yaw stability sensors that get screwy if you mess with tire sizes one way or the other very far. normal abs should not be affected by this type of change since the computer is only using a wheel speed sensor.
__________________
Mountain View Carpet Cleaning also found at carpet cleaning beaverton Do you own a turbo honda? see turboinstall.net
racebum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2008, 11:42 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Bbasso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 18,262
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (young noob #2)

what car and is it a 3 channel or 4 channel ABS system?
I have yet to hear of any problems with people who run staggered on integras.
Bbasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2008, 05:15 AM   #4
Honda-Tech Member
 
rice r0cket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 961
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (Bbasso)

What year is your EP3? The '06's gained 4 channel ABS.

My experience w/ the 4 channel ABS (on the '06 S2000) was it doesn't like if you mess w/ the stagger. ABS (and especially traction control) would activate a lot sooner when I ran 205/50's (as opposed to the OEM size is 215/45) up front.

Not sure about the behavior of the 3 channel, as I've never driven it.
__________________
1998 CR-V JRSC'd
1993 FD3S
http://www.racepa.com
rice r0cket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2008, 09:04 AM   #5
Junior Member
 
young noob #2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: stafford, va, U.S.
Posts: 127
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (rice r0cket)

I have an 2002, my REAL car was my 96 hatch, it had nothing power and I liked it that way, I could feel how much the brakes needed, and I loved not having powersteering, but after that money pit was stolen I came across an amazing deal on an ep3, I am just trying to get this car into the same glory as my ek......so having a 3 channel should prove in my favor for running this staggered set-up?
young noob #2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2008, 06:46 PM   #6
Honda-Tech Member
 
solo-x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 3,569
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (young noob #2)

When did wheel speed sensors care about tire width? The ABS on my R works fine, 275/35/15 front, 205/50/15 rear.
solo-x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2008, 07:11 PM   #7
Honda-Tech Member
 
adrian1281's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 445
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to adrian1281
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (rice r0cket)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rice r0cket
What year is your EP3? The '06's gained 4 channel ABS.

My experience w/ the 4 channel ABS (on the '06 S2000) was it doesn't like if you mess w/ the stagger. ABS (and especially traction control) would activate a lot sooner when I ran 205/50's (as opposed to the OEM size is 215/45) up front.

Not sure about the behavior of the 3 channel, as I've never driven it.
There's no such thing as a 2006 EP3, they were only made between 2002 and 2005.


Quote:
Originally Posted by young noob #2
I have an 2002, my REAL car was my 96 hatch, it had nothing power and I liked it that way, I could feel how much the brakes needed, and I loved not having powersteering, but after that money pit was stolen I came across an amazing deal on an ep3, I am just trying to get this car into the same glory as my ek......so having a 3 channel should prove in my favor for running this staggered set-up?
All EP3's are equipped with 4 channel ABS.

There is no yaw sensor input into the ABS, only the wheel speed sensors. The short answer is no, a staggered setup shouldn't affect the ABS negatively.

Although I would recommend 225 all-around and get the car to turn with suspension and tire pressure tuning before I ran a staggered setup.
__________________
2003 SSM EP3

Quote:
Originally Posted by yrpin5th
the formula was a big help but it still doesn't prove that bigger bore is more compression if u break it down into kilo meter decimals
adrian1281 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2008, 06:27 PM   #8
Junior Member
 
young noob #2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: stafford, va, U.S.
Posts: 127
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (adrian1281)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solo-x
When did wheel speed sensors care about tire width? The ABS on my R works fine, 275/35/15 front, 205/50/15 rear.
it doesn't.....do you know how to "read" tires?
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian1281

There's no such thing as a 2006 EP3, they were only made between 2002 and 2005.


All EP3's are equipped with 4 channel ABS.

There is no yaw sensor input into the ABS, only the wheel speed sensors. The short answer is no, a staggered setup shouldn't affect the ABS negatively.

Although I would recommend 225 all-around and get the car to turn with suspension and tire pressure tuning before I ran a staggered setup.
yea.....I know.....I actually keep trying to convince my self to run 225 all around, because I am still a youngin/novice and am trying to get back into the game, and I don't want my rear end getting loose on me and be like oh ****, this is a lot different than understeering! lol but just having 0 camber out back and more even tread wear is pretty inticing..... I am actually now looking into running a 225-50-16 and 205-55-16 set-up.....those are the exact same height sidewall, and I will be running the direzza z1 star specs...so the sidewall will still be pretty stiff, ugn IDK! any input on staggered set-ups on fwd feel free to pitch in, thanks all I appreciate it Click the image to open in full size.
young noob #2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 05:52 AM   #9
Honda-Tech Member
 
solo-x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 3,569
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (young noob #2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by young noob #2
it doesn't.....do you know how to "read" tires?
Yeah, rough math, you have an overall OD difference of 2.75mm's, assuming the tire manufacturer used "true" numbers (which they don't). Of course, the unloaded OD is meaningless as the rolling OD is what really matters, and that can vary by tire pressure and weight by more then ~3mm's. Anyway, if you "read" the tires I use, I have a much bigger theoretical difference in tire diameter (of course, in real life, that difference is nowhere near what the numbers would make you believe) then what you're thinking of. The tires you're looking at are so close in OD that the only practical difference is width.
solo-x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 06:13 AM   #10
Junior Member
 
young noob #2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: stafford, va, U.S.
Posts: 127
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (solo-x)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solo-x

Yeah, rough math, you have an overall OD difference of 2.75mm's, assuming the tire manufacturer used "true" numbers (which they don't). Of course, the unloaded OD is meaningless as the rolling OD is what really matters, and that can vary by tire pressure and weight by more then ~3mm's. Anyway, if you "read" the tires I use, I have a much bigger theoretical difference in tire diameter (of course, in real life, that difference is nowhere near what the numbers would make you believe) then what you're thinking of. The tires you're looking at are so close in OD that the only practical difference is width.
sorry I assumed you didn't know what you are talking about, but yes sir you are correct, and thats partially why I chose the wheels size/tires I did because their OD was sooo close, I would love to go with a 16 inch wheel set-up to cut on costs a little bit and to save on tires, but I haven't really looked into a staggered set-up on the direzza's and don't know if I can get the OD as close as I did with the 235-40-17 and 215-45-17 setu-up.....maybe a 225-50-16 set-up all around??? plus the little sidewall height will give me some extra ground clearance, plus this is mainly a DD that will see a few fun weekends, so a little more sidewall wouldn't hurt, especially the fact that I go to school in richmond, and this tire set-up will only be on from april-october, then the stockies come on for winter, sorry guys, I am very indecisive Click the image to open in full size.
young noob #2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 06:18 AM   #11
Honda-Tech Member
 
adrian1281's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 445
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to adrian1281
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (young noob #2)

IMO, run 225-50 all around.

225-45 if the Dunlops are offered in that size...
__________________
2003 SSM EP3

Quote:
Originally Posted by yrpin5th
the formula was a big help but it still doesn't prove that bigger bore is more compression if u break it down into kilo meter decimals
adrian1281 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 12:10 PM   #12
Junior Member
 
young noob #2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: stafford, va, U.S.
Posts: 127
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (young noob #2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian1281
IMO, run 225-50 all around.

225-45 if the Dunlops are offered in that size...
they have that in 17's but not 16's, which would work.....my sidewall would be .4 inches shorter compared to 225-50-16's........hmmmm
and for anyone who cares here is a sweet little calculator for plus sizing and stuff Click the image to open in full size. http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
young noob #2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 12:20 PM   #13
H-T Order of Merit
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Chicago
Posts: 23,476
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (young noob #2)

A staggered setup won't let you rotate your tires. Maybe that's not a big deal to you, but FWIW, I sure find the ability to rotate tires (including front to back) a nice feature. It means that all my tires are interchangeable, so if I bring 5-6 tires with me to the track, I can use all of them anywhere, and if I use one (or two) up, I can replace it/them with any of the others. And when a tire is just starting to go, when you start to see just the edge of the belts, you can still use it for a while on the rear, where it gets very little wear. It also enables me to wear out a set of tires at the same time, so I'm not stuck with two rear tires that last forever. $.02

nsxtasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 02:20 PM   #14
Honda-Tech Member
 
slofu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: medium pimpin
Posts: 1,826
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (young noob #2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by young noob #2
I have an 2002, my REAL car was my 96 hatch, it had nothing power and I liked it that way, I could feel how much the brakes needed, and I loved not having powersteering, but after that money pit was stolen I came across an amazing deal on an ep3, I am just trying to get this car into the same glory as my ek......so having a 3 channel should prove in my favor for running this staggered set-up?
due to the suspension design, will an EP3 ever have the potential of an EK?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by b16a4
can you use p30 [b16a] 81mm pistons in a b20 block ?[84mm]
Quote:
Originally Posted by b16a4
can i use sandpaper to hone my block?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDCIVIC
for excessive play grab the shaft and wiggle it
http://images.honda-tech.com/set1/smile/emsmilep.gif
slofu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 10:56 AM   #15
Junior Member
 
young noob #2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: stafford, va, U.S.
Posts: 127
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (nsxtasy)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nsxtasy
A staggered setup won't let you rotate your tires. Maybe that's not a big deal to you, but FWIW, I sure find the ability to rotate tires (including front to back) a nice feature. It means that all my tires are interchangeable, so if I bring 5-6 tires with me to the track, I can use all of them anywhere, and if I use one (or two) up, I can replace it/them with any of the others. And when a tire is just starting to go, when you start to see just the edge of the belts, you can still use it for a while on the rear, where it gets very little wear. It also enables me to wear out a set of tires at the same time, so I'm not stuck with two rear tires that last forever. $.02
I know what you are saying but your last sentence pretty much states it all, rear tires last a long time......so then I would only be messing with bringing to extra wheels/tires....but that isn't even part of any of my worries...this car is just a mountain road carver that I wan't to be a fun on the turns, and will see the occasional autocross, no road racing for me in the near future at all......to expensive......
young noob #2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2008, 08:51 AM   #16
Honda-Tech Member
 
adrian1281's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 445
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to adrian1281
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (young noob #2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by young noob #2
I know what you are saying but your last sentence pretty much states it all, rear tires last a long time......so then I would only be messing with bringing to extra wheels/tires....but that isn't even part of any of my worries...this car is just a mountain road carver that I wan't to be a fun on the turns, and will see the occasional autocross, no road racing for me in the near future at all......to expensive......
Why is it too expensive?


Modified by adrian1281 at 7:26 PM 10/11/2008
__________________
2003 SSM EP3

Quote:
Originally Posted by yrpin5th
the formula was a big help but it still doesn't prove that bigger bore is more compression if u break it down into kilo meter decimals
adrian1281 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2008, 09:38 AM   #17
Junior Member
 
young noob #2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: stafford, va, U.S.
Posts: 127
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: will a staggered wheel set-up screw up my ABS?? (adrian1281)

I am in college and pay for everything myself, my last car was stolen in december last year, my one year anniversary is coming up Click the image to open in full size. and auto-x is cheaper to compete in than road-racing and also more abundant
young noob #2 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
 
submit to reddit
Reply

Tags
abs, ep3, height, s2000, setup, staggered, tires

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:37 AM.



2014 Copyright, InternetBrands Inc.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Honda and the Honda marquee are registered trademarks of the American Honda Motor Company, Inc. Neither American Honda Motor Company nor its subsidiaries or affiliates shall bear any responsibility for Honda-Tech.com content, comments, or advertising. Honda-Tech.com is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Company in any way. American Honda Motor Company does not sponsor, support, or endorse Honda-Tech.com in any way. Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.
Emails & Contact Details