sibanez

Oh, I totally misread that rule. Thanks for the clarification.

Do you think it makes more sense to go 14x6 then with a 185/60/14? I'd give up a little traction, but lose a few pounds between tire and wheel.

I don't expect the car to be competive nationally, but it should be fun locally. I am probably over thinking this and should just be prepping a STC Civic, but one last hurrah for the Integra is hard to pass up.

Xian

I don't think going to smaller wheel/tires for a couple of pounds in unsprung weight is the way to go. They weight savings seem pretty unlikely to overcome the loss of contact patch and taller sidewall.

Based on tire options right now, I'd go with the Z2 SS. Things may change when all the new tire options roll out in the next couple months though. If this isn't intended to be a Nat's sorta car, I'd run whatever sorta bar/brace that you want. Current rules prohibit "non-standard lateral braces" that connect between the swaybar bracket but that's a pretty weenie item to bitch about locally or regionally. I'd also go with a higher rate front/rear bumpstop on the car to limit total roll.

sibanez

Makes sense. I just need to find the lightest possible 15x6 I can . . .

I am contemplating running the car at Lincoln depending on how it does. I have a possible co-driver who is competitive in DC who may drive with me which is why I want to keep it as 'legal' as possible. I did 22 events last year in a DSP Integra, STX WRX and an ESP WRX so this will be my first year running the same car the entire season.

Does anyone think the GSR can keep up with the Fiesta ST and Mini in H-Street? It seems like on the National-type courses, the GSR's speed may help it catch up to the Mini, but I don't see how it can touch a Fiesta. The Fiesta has stiffer springs and chassis plus more power. The ST weighs about 80lbs more, but with all that power I don't see it hurting the car.

I am planning a trip to Dixie in March to take an Evo school and run the event. I'll learn a lot about the Integra and what it can do, but more importantly will learn how to drive the car a bit faster. My previous FWD autocross experience with FWD has been with lsd-equipped cars so I expect things to change a bit.

Xian

Dammit. Lost my response.

Cliff's Notes:

Maybe NA Miata wheels? Thought they had a lightweight stock wheel that was made; could be wrong.

FiST/Mini- better cars for the class. Uphill battle.

Rear bar-do a custom one with speedway components. Maybe mount to the rear unibody/frame.

I'll be at Dixie also in STX. That's always a fun site/event... Have you been there before?

Christian

Xian

Oh yeah, check out the D-Force 15x6 it was designed/made for SCCA ITB/ITC club racing but may be a scent option for you. I think they're relatively light-ish and fairly cheap. Chip at Trackspeed helped get them to the market so I'd check with him or Phil @ Phil's Tire.

sibanez

I don't have much time to prep the car between now and March, but I'm gunning for Dixie. It will be my first trip there; I've only done local events and five trips to DC so it will be my first big-solo experience. I'm planning to run the Evo school first and then pay for as much track time as possible afterward since it will be my first autocross in this car. I'll be sure to look you up there.

Since March is just around the corner, I'm going to give the new Star Specs a run. Any suggestions between 195/55/15 or 195/50/15? With the GSRs longer second, I feel like the 50 will help.

Now for the fun part. From what I can tell, the 8041- RACE are shortened by 25mm over the standard Koni. What I can't find are the lengths for the standard Konis . . . does anyone know if they are too short (or is this a different thread?)

Here's the rule:
The fully extended length must be within ±1” (±25.4 mm) of the dimension of the standard part.

Looking into the wheels. The NB Miata wheels are about 13lbs and there's a set for sale right down the road from me. My ex has a set of NB BBS wheels which are 12.1, so I may have to nicely ask her.

Xian

Is the SS available in a 195/50 and 195/55? I know it's out there in 205/50. I'd have thought that (205/50) would be the one to go after but gearing will play a role in the decision for sure if you do have several aizes to choose from. I'd aim for whatever will get you a 62ish mph rev limit in 2nd. The Dixie site is fun and tends to favor transitional behavior over outright sweeper grip. There's one then around and normally 2 smaller sweepers... Course times around 50 seconds or so.

Honestly, I don't know how much shorter the RACE 8041's are... I've had them on a couple cars but never took measurements or compared them to regular OTS yellows. My suggestion would be to reach out to Lee @ Koni. If you have trouble reaching him, let me know and I'll get in touch with him.

IMO, and I could be VERY wrong here, I'd pay more attention to getting the right bumpstops on the car than I would trying to get the 8041's legal. Don't get me wrong, the extra rebound would be nice but these cars get down on the bumpstops almost immediately. Having a legal, higher rate bumpstop is going to be pretty important.

10cjennings

iTrader: (1)

My EG race 8041 fronts are sitting on my workbench. What measurements do you want?

sibanez

The fully extended and compressed lengths.

I need to pull my GSR shocks to see what they are. A few Google searches brought up different numbers.

Thanks!

sibanez

Good advice on the bump stops. Even on my DSP GSR with race Konis and 700/800lb springs, I was in the bump stops more than I thought. I was running the Ground Control extended top hats and their bump stops too.

What's a good place to look for bump stops? According to the rule book, the SCCA treats them as springs:

A suspension bump stop is considered to be performing the function
of a spring. Therefore, the compressed length of the shock at the initial
point of contact with the bump stop may not be increased from the
standard part, although the bump stop may be shortened for the purpose
of installing non-standard shocks. Bump stops installed externally
and concentric with the shaft of a shock may be drilled out to fit a larger
diameter shock shaft. Bump stops may be substituted for the purposes
of installing non-standard shocks.

It sounds like you can use other bump stops as long as they aren't longer than stock. So denser would be the key.

10cjennings

iTrader: (1)

From the base of the shock body to the tip of the adjuster?

Eg and GSR fronts are the same part number.

Xian

ARE Suspension is where I've gone. Their COT bumpstops in blue were damn near perfect for my application (DS ITR, revalved Bilsteins, 26mm rear bar). With the softer GSR rates, I don't know if you'll end up with a harsher transition? Mine were pretty smooth though you could feel the car get down on them during higher speed "whoops" on the interstate.

FWIW, my STX ITR doesn't touch the bumpstops on course even with 650's up front and a fairly low ride height. This being said, I don't run at particularly bumpy sites either...

civexspeedy

STC is no more. STC and STS merged, pretty much making former STC cars uncompetitive...thanks SCCA.

Long time WDCR member here. Who's your co-driver?

sibanez

Ashley in the silver ESP WRX may be driving with me if I can put the car together. I know she'll be driving the WRX in ASP or SM, but is interested in running H-Street if the GSR can keep up.

Xian

Hyperbole much? Maybe it's way off base but the data I've seen on the times between the classes seemed to indicate that they were awfully close with the top 10-15 cars in both classes being right in the hunt vs. each other.

<--- admittedly no dog in the fight and basing this off what I've read on the inneert00bz so grain of salt and all that...

10cjennings

iTrader: (1)

+1, I don't run the class but was thinking about it and saw a breakdown of the top 10 times between the 2 classes at nats for the last 3 years and it seemed pretty well mixed. I didnt compile the results, nor did I account for potential differences in heat times that could have affected one class, or know enough to know whether top cars in both classes made it out those years.

sibanez

Good question and thanks for the offer. I think, for now, I'm going with OTS Koni Yellows and am not going to worry about length. I'm doing all I can to keep the car H-Street legal, but I'm not not jumping through more hoops than I have to. I'm done one, maybe two national events and know I don't have the seat time or car to rank.

Here's what I'm doing:

Star Spec IIs in 195/50/15
Whiteline 20mm rear bar
Blue bump stops
New front lower control arms
New OEM rear-trailing arm bushings
Fill-in-the blank drop-in filter
Copper plugs

I'll be curious to see how it runs and expect it to be a lot of fun, minus the spinning inside wheel.

10cjennings

iTrader: (1)

I think you're gonna want more rear bar then that.

Xian

My knee jerk reaction is more bar but you may be able to make it work with some toe-out and high rear pressures.

civexspeedy

While they may be CLOSE(and close is rarely good enough in this sport) at Nationals(yes I know where it counts), more often than not STCivics fell short behind STS. It's a harder hill to climb for the Civics to really be at the top when they are 100-200lbs heavier than any competitive CRX. And the depending on the course, a Miata can put a good distance on both the CRX and Civic.

I've been paying attention to the guys in my class since talk of the merge started and when it happened. A LOT of very long time STCivic owners have already sold their cars or are planning on selling them. Hell there were 4 very competitive STCivic posted up for sale on SCCAforums.com just in December. 2 of which are National Championship winning cars. 1 of those being Jeff Wong's car who won 7! National Championships and probably at least trophied at every other event out there. If someone like that is selling a clear winning car, you know something is a little questionable.

Can the STCivic compete? Yeah, sure it'll be up there with good drivers. But a heavy hitter? Doubtfully. SCCA took an easy, relatively cheap and fun competitive car and threw it away and the class was always healthy at nationals.

For me, I'll continue to run my car, but only locally. I just can't justify selling a very clean hatch that has thousands put into it. Doesn't cost me anything to keep it so might as well have a little fun with it. But in the future I will be moving to a different car/class because of this merge... It is what it is.

Xian

Sounds to me like you're pissed off that the STCivic has more competition. The results data that I saw indicated a pretty damn even mix of STS and STC cars across the top 10-15 positions. It wasn't a case that the Civic was merely "close" to competitive; it *was* competitive. Does it make things tougher now that you'd need to scrap against a deeper field stuffed full of fast guys with Miata/CRXen? Sure! But isn't the competition part of the fun?

As far as the guys selling the cars, I know some of the guys who've sold STC cars over the last year or so and they're not all bailing over the class consolidation. It's a bunch of stuff from personal life changes, different goals, wanting something new, the R1R 140TW fiasco, etc. What it isn't is all the people thinking that their cars are no longer relevant to the class. Hell, Kerry recently sold off his STS CRX. Im pretty sure that wasn't because the car suddenly became an overdog in the combined class.

As to the weight differences, I can't say that's what I've seen when you're looking at the Japanese 89 hatch vs the CRX. There's some weight advantage to a CRX but it's more in the ~40# range IIRC. If you're comparing something like a 90-91 hatch to an 88 CRX then yeah... Big weight difference. I'd say that the way the two cars drive is a bigger difference with the Civic being way easier to wheel though I don't think it would create a significant course dependency advantage to either car.

civexspeedy

Not pissed off that I have more competition, I welcome it. I've had little competition in my region for many years, so I'm happy to have more now moving into STS. Esp since I'll be competing directly against easily one of the fastest CRX in the country(Mike/Ian's STS championship winning car).

My gripe is they threw a cheap, easy, fun and essentially spec car(bringing it down to driver talent) away by moving it into STS. Is the car competitive in STS, yes, this is clear. But it is still unlikely(but possible) to win even in the right hands. In the past 5 Solo Nats(only 5 because that's only what I looked at), only once was an STC civic faster than STS pack(2012). The other 4 events brought out an average of the winning STCivic being 1.17secs slower than the winning STS car. That's quite a chunk of time. Will the STCivic be in the trophy's? Yeah...but that's only because SCCA thinks everyone should be a winner and hand out 20 trophies lol. It sounds like a good thing that STCivic would be there, but it really isn't.. People who are serious in this sport want to win and will spend big bucks. Good, clean Japanese civics are hard to come by, not many running in ST.. If someone wants to jump in STS and have a good shot at winning, they're going to go with either the CRX or Miata. At least I would think based off data and spec numbers.

The guys selling their cars definitely sold them either to move on or because they felt the car wasn't competitive. I can bet many would have held onto the car if the class was left alone.. And I don't feel the CRX is that much more difficult to drive than the Civic, at least in my personal experience. I've driven both cars with nearly identical setups and didn't find there to be much of any significant difference. But that's just me, everyone has their opinions on driving of course.

Like I said, it is what it is...

xotic_crx

Xian, I should've realized you knew Kerry. He sold his car to a couple in our region (The Booker's) and I was at the last event he sold the car. He's in a different region, but yeah he just wanted to go STR.

I'll be honest, I've been thinking about getting an S2000 to just run in BS and daily and getting out of the SMF game altogether. I doubt it will happen, but it doesn't hurt that the wife likes S2K's as well haha.

Xian

No class where $2,000 shitboxes are running $4-8k shock packages is what I'd call "cheap or "easy"".

So STC outpaced STS in 2012. Jason also beat out STS in 2013 and the gap(s) for 2014 were smaller than in earlier (2011/2010) years. To me, this indicates that whatever gap that exists is small and possibly getting smaller given the class to class differences.

I don't know you personally but, from the outside looking in, I think that you're drawibg the conclusions that you want to arrive at vs. evaluating the data on its own merits.

I've owned both CRX's, hatches, a sedan, and a wagovan. IME, the CRX requires a different setup than the longer WB cars. YMMV and all that.

Yup, Kerry's an awesome guy! Curious, do you know Dan with a PY STX ITR? He's up your direction I think...

I like SMF. It's a cool and fun class. IMO, it's damn near the perfect local class for Honda stuff. Enough room to play and have fun and not terribly expensive as long as nobody goes full retard with prep.

xotic_crx

I don't know of him. He may be in one of the other LA regions, I just knew Kerry since he had a CRX.