Xian

Yep, I factored the different motion ratios into the wheel rate calculation. Testify is correct that there's a pretty significant difference in them BUT that's not nearly enough to overcome the diameter difference and, more importantly the arms lengths.

As far as spring rate, I don't know what you think of as soft. I've typically run between 500-650 at the rear and didn't feel like that was too tough to live with. Front rates in the 650-850 range.

mdb4879

I've been wondering the same thing. Is there a difference in how the car feels or behaves as it rotates between stiff springs with a soft bar and soft springs with a stiff bar in the rear?

Xian

The softer rear springs allow the bar to do provide more of the roll resistance (because a sway bar relies on roll in order to work). The softer springs make the car more compliant over bumps and, IMO, easier to drive in fast transitions. I've found rear stiff spring setups make the car too knife-edge feeling for autox where you need a little forgiveness. On track, the more traditional "stiff rear" setup drives fine for me.

Personally, I'd suggest trying both as well as trying other setups. The only way you'll learn what works best for you is to try them out.

Dallasb84

What do y'all know about these?

testify

I believe they are actually Hoosier R6's.

xotic_crx

Back to the original topic, saw this linked on Jalopnik just a bit ago.

http://www.stangtv.com/news/pri-2014-toyo-tires-announces-class-legal-200-treadwear-rubber/

I'm still leaning towards Rivals, but I'd like to find full results from Andy Hollis' test last year on street tires and wheel widths.

Xian

Yep... and there's currently no solid information on the tire. It was debuted at SEMA a moth or so ago.

IIRC, Andy's test results were that wider wheels were always faster but that pinching tires wasn't super effective. The test I'm thinking of was a track one and referenced that, with a 15x8, the 205 and 225 put down about the same lap but made speed differently. The 225 got faster on a 15x9.

IMO, adding the extra width and heat capacity is more likely to help heavier cars or ones with more power.

xotic_crx

Yeah I remember that the 225 on a 9" wheel was faster. I can't remember if he tested the R1R in a 225/9" combo against the Rival. That's my alternative at the moment unless a ZII comes out in a 225/45.

Xian

I don't remember him testing the R1R since it wasn't really in the mix speed wise. Besides, it doesn't really matter if he tested the R1R anyway since the new version is coming out and *most likely* has a new compound.

If you're not married to a single true brand, I got to run my friend's B16 EG yesterday on 225 Rival, 205 Federal and was very impressed with the Federals. They drive/feel a lot like the old R1R with a smooth/progressive feel to the rear of the car. They're also way cheaper than anything else on the market... but they're 140TW if that matters to you.

PS
If you don't have ABS to worry about, you could even run a 225/195 stagger in the RS3.

Dallasb84

Hey guys has anybody have any experience with the maxxis victra RC-1 tire?
Supposedly it is a dot legal r compound..... Stickier than nt-01..... And a bunch of sizes.

Hoping to hear good news.

civexspeedy

The new r1r should be updated and there's a good chance it may be better. Faster, don't know, but maybe better. The 140 r1r is already old. It was new tech a couple years ago. So this new 200 r1r will likely actually be new, but with same tread pattern. Hopefully it'll be better in the sense that it handles heat better and we won't need to shave them..

As far as the Rivals go, I'll wait to see what pans out. BFG did a whole lot of testing at Solo Nats this year, on CONCRETE. So I'm going to assume they are shooting for a tire that performs best on concrete and in hot temps, typically where and when all the big events are ran.. The rivals were so overhyped at the beginning of last season and the results proved they weren't all they were cracked up to be. Most ST/Street stock cars were on something else for the events that mattered. I have a bunch of friends who have tested every tire out there and the rivals were never at the top of the list and they never ran them, even with contingency payout, at the national events. Like last year, I'll wait for the marketing push to settle and let the real results do the talking.

Black R

My comment was more (for you and the OP) along the lines of: you'll be bumped to SMF for having a frenkenswap, so might as well run the best rubber you can for the class - which is Hoosier A6 or now A7.

For lapping days, who cares - you can run a street tire there if you want them to last longer.

Or takeoff R6's are the better choice... Provided you don't mind changing tires at the track.

Fwiw, I run a supercharged b18c5 in an EF hatch - in SMF.

I run 11k front and 16k rear spring rates.
Shocks on full soft rear, and I raise the dampening on the front depending on the course that day.
Si front swaybar and ST rear swaybar on full stiff.
275/35/15 A6 front and 205/50/15 A6 rear
-2.5* camber front and -2* camber rear

Iirc, Nate suggested that running softer rear than front by about half the spring rate + a 32mm rear bar was netting him the best cornering G's via datalogs. So 1100 lb front and 550 lb rear.

He adjusted the rotation with rear camber - as that had the most effect.

He also said you can run r6 fronts for hot days and they don't give up much per run, but that they last twice as long.
Always run A6 rears though.

testify

Actually it's not legal for any SCCA Solo class because he is running nitrous oxide.

Nitrous is expressly forbidden in SCCA Solo.

Only repeating this because nobody seemed to acknowledge it before. I'd hate to see someone get to a national event and have to head home over it. It's not like having an illegal modification and getting docked time, or being asked to bump up a class, you simply can't run it in the sport.

Xian

FWIW, Nate ended up with the stock bar on the back of his car and was working on a smaller/softer one. He was also on softer rear rates at that point too.

IMO, Nate's setup is a great starting point for *one* way to set the car up. I also don't think that it can be taken as a direct translation unless you're also running an EG/DC on R-comps with a huge stagger. I've taken some of his tips and am (generally) very happy with how my car drives...

I thought I posted something previously... as long as the bottle is out of the car and left at home I don't see anyone having an issue with the rest of the stuff being installed in the car.

Black R

^ agreed on all of the above.

Johnne625

i personally compete against the man and not once has there been any NOS bottle within the car and i'd say our region is very stiff when it comes to rules and safety, and it wouldn't fly if he did.

xotic_crx

Thought I mentioned I take it out all the time except for tuning and the drag strip? Maybe not, but I don't even have room to carry tools/tires/etc with the bottle in the back.

the171

Been running Bridgestone RE-11s 205/50/15 for a few years. Mixed street and amateur track driving. This is a great all round tire. They grip and withstand heat better than the falken Azenis I used before. Plus they last 3x as long. Recommended!

Dallasb84

I talked with maxxis yesterday an asked about the RC-1. Was told it is a step under the NT-01. Might be a good all around tire and run decent on track days. Also ordering direct from them shipping is free on the website.

Gonna run 245s

xotic_crx

They crossed my mind, but it would put me back out of the street tire pax. At that point i would go with the Kooks. I thought about 245 R6 since I'll have a co-driver to keep heat in the tires, and A6's on the back. Still waiting to find out what's different about the A7.

speedjunkie_g35

I just picked up some new Z'II Starspecs 205/50/15 which run oversized and have a contact patch of about 215mm. So far they are doing great on my lil 300whp. I am very pleased with the grip they provide. They are doing great in wet conditions as well. This are on my street setup so I can provide much details in a autox environment but I can imagine they will shine. Unfortunatly, I run r6's so the zII's will never make it to a auto x event.
On 15x8 +25...

Dallasb84

Will a 205 r6 fit with those wheels( not so much wheel but tire wheel combo). I ran sm6 on my 7.5 konig 36et and had to roll fenders and raise my car to clear. Not to mention beat some pinch welds a bit.

I'm planning on going 225-245 with a 0offset 9" wheel. -3.5f -3r camber. Not sure what I'm gonna do this next year honestly. Putting r compound drastically changed the car as a whole and I think going wider wheel and tire will screw it all up again (in a good way).

speedjunkie_g35

My r6's are on a Enkei 15x7.5 +36. Pinch weld has be hammered down and fenders have been rolled and pulled. I can run them at current height in pic without issues. I am looking at going with a 9" rim soon as well, I think in a +30 offset and bumping up to a 225-245.

sibanez

With the SCCA moving the GSR into H- Street, I'm thinking of taking my factory 98 to the fight. I realize the Fiesta ST and Minis will be faster, but my 2002 WRX no longer has a punchers chance in STX and I don't have the wallet for ASP or SM.

With the new wheel rules, I can go to a 15x7. I know the 205/50/15s are generally oversized and may pinch a bit on the wheel. I remember seeing Type R guys on 225/45/15s, but am looking for suggestions. I'm probably running the new Star Spec IIs or Kook RS3 . . .have experience with Rivals and RE-11As and prefer the turn in on the Dunlops, but grip of the Kooks.

Going to throw on Koni Yellow race shocks and the Whiteline bar since it doesn't connect the chassis points.

Xian

The street class allowance is for "+1" to diameter, not width so you'll still be on the 15x6's... Given that, the Z2 SS will probably be the droid you're looking for. Though the 195/50 RS3 may be an option also (or the unknown but new Bridgestone or even new Toyo).