STN_Pat

Hey

Do you think that it's possible to obtain more track mileage from brand new R compounds (new gen...R888, NT01, etc) vs. brand new street tires (azenis, R1R, Re011, starspec, etc) used on the track only ?

I still don't get why new gen R compounds aren't that much better than the Toyo RA1 in term of grip, while they last for so much less track miles. I can't find new RA1 around here, so i'll just try to forget about them.

I am wondering if I could get more track miles from these R compounds compared to street tires. I am focusing on the number of events made with the tire, I already know the differences between these tires, and already ran both kind on the track.

I am looking for experiences from people who have used both, to see if I am wrong to think that i'll get more mileage out of new R compounds vs. new street tires, if both driven uniquely on the track.

I am talking about medium to moderatly high speed track, with a 2100lbs fwd Honda. HPDE kind of events.

THanks,

Patrick, who is already missing his almost cording RA1.

slammed_93_hatch

Pat are you sure you can't get Ra1s?

All club racing is going back to Ra1s and a good chance that WC will too.

1200 Hobos

iTrader: (7)

I'm wondering the same thing although I haven't yet driven any miles on R-compounds. What will last longer if both are driven equally as hard? If one lasts 6 track days, what will the other last in the same conditions?

Lo-Buck EF

I buy ra1s from phils tire service. I don't know if its a pain to get tires shipped from the states but he's got them. Depending on how u drive, an r-comp will last longer(ra1 vs azenis)

rice_classic

I've always considered a shaved RA1 an R compound as it is a 100 treadwear rating and has the characteristics of a traditional R-Compound ie: only has grip when hot.

I can take new shaved set of RA1's and get 30-45 or more sessions on them on a 2250lb race car and they are typically as fast when they chord as they were when they started. A lot of the Re-01/11's, star spec's, azenis and those type of tires have the characteristic of drastically reducing their grip levels when they get hot because they are intended to be daily driven they HAVE to have a high degree of grip when cold. It's difficult to design a tire compound that is very grippy when cold and remains grippy when hot.

If all you're doing tracking your car, I suggest sticking with Star Spec\Azenis\RE-11 type of tire. The reason is that during an HPDE, you're not allowed (and you better not be!) driving 10/10th's. Without 10/10th's driving there's absolutely no point in collecting lap times and you aren't driving in a competitive environment so you might as well go out on track on the same tires you drove down to the track on.

Another option is that you like to have 300+ treadwear all season tires on your car that last a very long time and then you put "track" tires on when you get to the track. In that case, it doesn't matter what choose. Durability won't be the issue, grip and track-ability will be so go find what you like.

tronic

I don't think you can lump together all street tires vs all R compounds.

In my experience, Hankook RS2 and Dunlop Star Specs will last a long time for track use, and are also very affordable. I bet the new Hankook RS3 is pretty good as well. Some street tires like the Toyo R1R don't last very long even for autocross. Azenis just overheat and are easily surpassed by most newer street tires especially for track use.

I've been running a slightly used set of Hoosier R6's this year for track days and autox events, and have been very impressed by how long they are lasting. I'll definitely be sticking with those next year, if I can afford a new set. Performance-wise, I'm glad I went with used R6's vs new NT01's.

If you're just doing non-competition track events, I would stick with street tires. At least you can drive to and from the track on them, which is a BIG plus in my book.

(I drive a 2600lb GSR sedan with just Koni/GC/ASR suspension and a Wavetrac LSD.)

nsxtasy

R compound tires just won't last anywhere near as long as extreme performance street tires, given the same usage. That answers the question you asked.

However, I don't understand why you can't get the Toyo RA-1 up there. When the 205/50-15 was in short supply here, I ordered some from a dealer in your area. They don't show them on their website now, but you might try calling them to ask. Or call Toyo in Canada to ask. You can always get them shipped from a dealer in the States, too.

You can also try the Toyo R888, which is shown on the Talon website. It's priced similar to the RA-1 and is reasonably long-lasting also.

Here are some of the dealers selling Toyo tires, particularly their R compound tires:

Canada BC 1010tires.com http://www.1010tires.com 888-825-MAGS
Canada BC TireTrends.com http://www.tiretrends.com 877-920-TIRE
Canada QC Talon http://www.talontire.com 514-337-0833
U.S. CA AIM Tires http://www.aimtire.com 707.938.9193
U.S. CA Les Schwab http://www.lesschwab.com
U.S. CA OnLineTires.com http://www.onlinetires.com 877-465-8473
U.S. DE Sports Car Tire http://www.sportscartire.com 800-752-TIRE
U.S. GA Treadepot http://www.treadepot.com 888-421-TIRE
U.S. IL Frisby Performance Tire http://www.frisbyracetire.com 800.798.7201 or 1.847.244.7050
U.S. IL TireDeals4Less.com http://www.TD4L.com 888-598-9200
U.S. IL Vilven Tire http://www.vilventires.com 800-251-0017 or 888-77-KUMHO
U.S. MD Radial Tire http://www.radialtire.com 301-585-2740
U.S. NY Phil's Tire Service http://www.philstireservice.com 845-429-8943
U.S. PA CJ's Tires http://www.cjtire.com 610-404-0224
U.S. PA The Tire Shoppe http://www.thetireshoppe.com 866-208-6551
U.S. SC Bob Woodman Tires http://www.bobwoodmantires.com 843-571-2277
U.S. TN Appalachian Race Tire http://www.racetire.com 865-681-6622
???? ?? TreadZone http://www.treadzone.com

Davidss

I get around 2 to 3 times the life out of top tier street tires versus r comps.

STN_Pat

Thanks nsxtasy, that is greatly appreciated. I knew about TalonTires, but everytime (2x) I was ready to buy, they were out of stock, plus they rarely carry the 225 45...

I don't understand why I am getting more life out of my RA1 (9 events as of now on 2 seasons) the more they get heat cycled, while my Azenis will barely give me 5 events rotated, plus the 5th and 6th events are always a pain with azenis. I won't get into performance comparison.

I am a fan of 25-30min sessions, maybe that is the problem. Street tires do overheat rapidly, and degrade rapidly too when overheaten. I think this is why I am getting way way more life out of R compounds...or maybe the RA1 are just that special.

I guess i'll have no choice but to put my hands on a new set of RA1, and a set of street tires...both for track only.

Should I give up the Azenis then, and look for the new hankook RS3 (225 45 25 !!!), Khumo XS and potenza RE011 ? Maybe the problem comes from the azenis itself...

nsxtasy

Remember, tires - like brake pads, and brake rotors - are consumables, parts that you will need to replace on a fairly frequent basis. So you can always try something, and if you're not all that happy with it, try something else next time.

If you want to keep using street tires, then I would definitely use one of the newer tires rather than the Azenis. I don't know anything about the RS-3 yet - I think you mean 225/45-15, unless you have amazingly huge wheels - but I know the XS and RE-11 are both excellent.

STN_Pat

Thanks for all of your sharings.

I'd like to get this topic on another angle...

How many track miles do you guys get out of full thread R-compounds (or street tire for that matter, as long as you start full thread, and use them on a road race track only) ?

Is it rationnal to expect 1500 track miles from full thread R compound tires ? I know it implies many variables, but let's say 15 to 40 minutes sessions, on slow to mid-fast tracks.

Sorry for all the non-pratical questions. The winter is starting here and i've got so much time to think about useless things...plus the R compounds I used were never 100% new.

TY.

nsxtasy

I keep track of all the miles I put on my tires.

On my ITR, I consistently get around 2000 track miles on the Toyo RA-1, which doesn't include another 600 or so street miles between the track and the hotel. I was getting less than that - averaging about 1300 track miles (plus a few hundred street miles) - when I was using the Yokohama A032R on the ITR. I've just started using the Nitto NT-01. I haven't used a set up yet but it appears I'll end up with somewhere around 1000-1200 track miles when they're done.

I've gotten at least as many track miles using the same tires on the NSX.

All figures are total mileage, starting from full tread (8/32" for the RA-1, 6/32" for the NT-01), unshaven, and rotating them from corner to corner, front and back (for the ITR but not the NSX), and flipping them on the rim once, ending up with them on the right rear when the belts just start to show where I typically can get another 400-500 track miles (included in the above numbers) until the belts are about 1/2" wide, at which point I toss the tires. I generally run as one of the slower cars in the instructor run group in HPDE events on a variety of tracks.

So based on my usage, I would say that 1500 miles is easily doable from the Toyo RA-1 by following the same strategy for rotating and flipping, but would be a stretch for the NT-01 or A032R.

HTH

drewbie

We run RA-1s from 2002 if that tells you anything.

bsclywilly

Pat, I posted this on the Ontario solosprint forums a while back. I've been running the Bridgestone RE-11 with a co-driver this season. After about 8000kms (5000mi) total with 2400 track kms (1500 mi), they look like this.

Started at full tread (9/32nds I think) and we're down to around 4 or 5/32nds depending where you measure.

STN_Pat

thank you bsclywilly.

I can't wait to try the next gen street tires on the track (RE-11, XS, etc).

maxogsr

I just want to share my experience abour R compound and street tire on track since I use both...

I do about 40 to 60 hour of track each summer since the last 3 years. Plus I do compete in local autoX events... What I can say about R vs 200 and less Treadwear tire is that you get about the same mileage from both if use about the same way on track... BUT, R compound will never chunk, overheat and get hard as a hockey puck like the "max performance tire" like they use to call it at Tirerack...

My RA1 (so bad we can't have some anymore) were giving me so much more pleasure during a 20 mins session compare to the falken 615 or hankook rs2... Both street tire were chunking and overheat wich lead them to be no precise and greacy... They offer much less braking and slide instead of gripping in tight corner...

I haven't tried the latest new comers re11, rs3, xs, neova... People who use the new XS on track seems to be really happy about them by now... I use to be happy about my rt615 too early last year, but after about 10 session of 15-20mins they were alwready toast even if they were a lot of tread left on them... We'll see if new comers will be more consistent on the long run but I doubt... It's not made for the same purpose...

nsxtasy

Not true. When used on the track, you will get more track miles from street tires like the Star Spec or RE-11 than you will from R compounds. Granted, some R compounds will last you longer than others, just as some street tires will last you longer than others. But street tires will give you more track miles than track tires.

maxogsr

Well, you might get a bit more mileage out of them but all street tires i've been using on track were toast after about 5-7 hours of track... Yes you'll still have tread, but the tire will no more stick like a new set... More over, they'll chunk... I (ra1) was pushing my friend (fresh new Starspec) with his evoX in the ***... He had to push a lot to keep up with me... After the 20 mins session, there was big treads chunk in his tires. Actually so much that he had to change 2 brand new tire cause they were not safe anymore. My 2 last set of rt615 and rs2 got toast and chunk either...

Street tire dont like been overheated... Like I said, you might have some tread left, but they'll no more stick compare from when new... transponder test!