Cynical 1

so, i'm asking if there is a good aftermarket rear toe/compensator arm for the EG civic? or is the stock design superior?

i'm looking at the adjustable ones, and it looks like a good idea - but they look like cheap junk...

reason i am asking is because i fear that the rear toe has a potential to change due to the bolt that tightens the arm to the chassis potentially slipping. or, does this ever really happen?

i know this may be better in the suspension forum, but this car does see HPDE track time, as well as spirited weekend driving.

thanks.

known

iTrader: (1)

Im running one of those "cheap blox" rear toe adjusters. It has been fine for the past year and a half.

It allows me to fine tune if needed and has decent bushings.

The issue with the bolt slipping hasnt happened to me, you can dab some paint on it to mark it and check.

Lo-Buck EF

+1 for aftermarket. i have wicked tuning. basically anything but skunk2. their bushings fail. quickly.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Bunny Club and Hardrace.....

Where is Ken Adelberg? Anyone know?

vtecjj

I use the SPC rear toe links. They're good toe links, they don't slip, come loose or anything. I bought them because they're good spherical units. In all honesty, stock ones would be superior, if they had solid bronze bushings or spherical bearings instead of rubber.

With the adjustable links, when I do the alignment, I don't touch the adjuster on the link. It's too time consuming and cumbersome. I just loosen the 14mm bolt that attaches to the chassis and slide the RTA to where it needs to be. loosening/tightening the jam nuts and adjusting the adjustment shaft is too much to do compared to the 14mm one bolt on the chassis.

Other's may disagree....but I won two championships that way...LOL

JamesS

Yeah, you're doing it wrong......for the sake of rest of us at least.

chrisb

I completely agree with vtecjj above. It is stupid to have two modes of adjustment for toe. I have never experienced and can't even recall hearing of the factory adjustment slipping. I am developing a very high end toe link adjustment because the aftermarket stuff is not legal for SCCA IT and like you said, most of it is junk. My stuff should be ready in a couple of months. I personally would stay stock. But if you really want to try some aftermarket ones I actually have some HARDly RACE units I would let go cheap. I stupidly bought them before I started making spherical parts. They have so much damn interference between the bearing and the bearing sleeve that even with a 12" philips head screw driver inserted into the spacers it took about all I had to get the bearing to move. Sweet. They are a pretty sparkly blue though so they have that going for them!

My parts will use high end Aurora or NHBB bearings, chromoly sleeves, will be tack welded to the stock toe links and zinc coated. But they won't be cheap. Again, I would stay stock but would be happy to show you some parts at the track one day. Karl Kondor will be at RA in a few weeks running my stuff.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23842871@N05/6775234708/http://www.flickr.com/photos/23842871@N05/6775234708/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/23842871@N05/, on Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23842871@N05/6921349451/http://www.flickr.com/photos/23842871@N05/6921349451/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/23842871@N05/, on Flickr

lwnslw

I have aftermarket links so that makes me stupid I guess. Hey Paul , ken is hidding but I can get him on the phone.

chrisb

Dude, not saying that at all. I still have those POS Hard Race units on my race car/spider habitat right now. Just saying you don't "need" adjustment on the actual toe link in my opinion. That ability already exists.

known

iTrader: (1)

The ability does exist but for $50 or whatever I paid for the blox units it was a lot easier to deal with compared to finding bushing for the oem units and pressing in and out.

The adjuster can also help fix slightly tweaked arms lol

TunerN00b

Adjustable length compensator arms allow adjustment of the toe curve's slope. The factory adjustment allows adjustment of the static toe setting.

This means that setting one side to a different length than the other while adjusting the toe will result in different toe curves for each side.

Toe should be adjusted with the factory adjustment mechanism after setting both compensator arms to the exact same length, the length depending on what you want to do to the toe curve.

FlewByU352

Wait so the length of the toe arm itself changes the toe curve? Is a shorter arm more aggressive and a longer arm less aggressive? Just curious as to the geometry because I have DC toe arms on an EK and I believe they are longer.

vtecjj

That's basically what I do. I need to learn me about toe curves and how the relationship between the length of the compensator arm (shorter vs. longer) affects the toe curve. More specifically, how the different length in arms affect the toe (curve) under acceleration, braking and the entrance of a corner.

Cynical 1

i'll be working de side grid at RA this March for NASA, so tell me when and where...

Cynical 1

and it looks like this is one aftermarket part that might be worth it? i know how we "love" aftermarket lower arms...

any other thoughts? one brand over another? or is blox actually a decent part?

Lo-Buck EF

i definitely use the adjustability (length wise) of my hardrace toe links to play with the toe curve, not so much the toe setting.

FlewByU352

Any information on toe curve in relation to toe arm lengths? What is good or bad? Would less of a curve make it more stable in a turn?

TunerN00b

Shorter arm = more change in toe with same suspension movement

That is, after all, how all suspension arms work, due to their movement in an arc about a fixed point.

Unanswerable. The ride height, spring rates, compliance of the large trailing arm bushing (seriously), rear camber (if adjustable), and many more things, all play a role here.

FlewByU352

Obviously they all play a role in how much change is allowed but what is more desirable? Which provides more grip to the rear under hard braking and cornering at higher speeds? Reason for asking is the rear of my car wants to wander in the turns. The alignment was set to .03 toe in for the rear and 1 degree camber. Maybe it is just my spring rates being way too soft but I figured the wandering had to be due to some weird alignment stuff going on.

cletus11

Has anyone tried building their own?

dbang003

Perfect timing for this discussion to come up. I went to align my car and the drivers side toe adjust bolt is seized in the bushing. How this happens when the car is garaged and I know it had anti seize on it is beyond me? At any rate, I was going to get aftermarket toe arms.

My question, do people prefer Blox or Hard Race? Those are the 2 I am looking at. Is ones rubber bushing superior over the other? That seems to be the only item that would fail.

Thanks.

Drew

suldy

I'm using the spc adjustable toe kit. bushingless kit. its made pretty solid and i havent had any issues with them after several track days. they have -/+ 2 degrees. plenty to work with. my two cents.

JW racing

I use the SPC as well.

I was instructed to install them as long as possible so they are bottomed out on the slot closest to the center of the car. So they have the least amount of toe change bc of the length. Then I adjust my toe accordingly with the adjuster on the link. I have no idea if this is actually right, but it seems work for me.

known

iTrader: (1)

I'm using blox, not bad but I think spc would be the best quality

VTECIntegra9

So I also just tore apart a toe link bushing while trying to get the bolts out... Anyways the SPC look the best compared to making my own. I was just about the make my own from McMaster but found the wicked tuning rubber bushing ones for $55 shipped... Figure I'll try em out if there are issues I can still just make my own spherical equipped ones.

I'll post up if anything with them suck and/or are awesome