Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle?
10-03-2005, 08:38 PM
#1
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Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle?
I've had a hankering for an older (~84) Mercedes 300 TD wagon for a tow vehicle.
If the tranny, brakes and hitch are OK, then what other potential tow vehicle problems might I encounter?
If the tranny, brakes and hitch are OK, then what other potential tow vehicle problems might I encounter?
10-03-2005, 08:41 PM
#2
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (zygspeed)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the tranny, brakes and hitch are OK, then what other potential tow vehicle problems might I encounter?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's a 21 year old German vehicle... you do the math
What's it rated at towing in the US? In Eurpoe?
It's a 21 year old German vehicle... you do the math
What's it rated at towing in the US? In Eurpoe?
10-03-2005, 08:41 PM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (zygspeed)
it's an older mercedes that's gonna cost a dumptruck full of money to maintain.
80's german cars and electrical systems do not play nice together.
<----had an 88 BMW 535
80's german cars and electrical systems do not play nice together.
<----had an 88 BMW 535
10-03-2005, 08:45 PM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (zygspeed)
Other than the fact that it can hardly pull itself up a mountain without a trailer? 
J/k, my parents have an '81 300D (non-turbo). It's a great car but 120 lb-ft only seems torquey because the power drops to nothing off idle. I once drove a TD, the lag seemed to suck the best part of the powerband away (the bottom end) while not really giving much reward up top. At least the turbo makes it quieter.
I must say though, I really did like Mercedes better when they were really overbuilt, really something different rather than just a badge and fancy electronics.
Peter
J/k, my parents have an '81 300D (non-turbo). It's a great car but 120 lb-ft only seems torquey because the power drops to nothing off idle. I once drove a TD, the lag seemed to suck the best part of the powerband away (the bottom end) while not really giving much reward up top. At least the turbo makes it quieter.
I must say though, I really did like Mercedes better when they were really overbuilt, really something different rather than just a badge and fancy electronics.
Peter
10-03-2005, 08:48 PM
#5
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (tnord)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">80's german cars and electrical systems do not play nice together.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How true, a guy at work (don't ask) was instructing his daughter in college just how to address her "battery" problem.
I've had a soft spot for one of those from way back.
Figure resolving those electrical issues might not be as bad as buying a newish td vehicle. ???
How true, a guy at work (don't ask) was instructing his daughter in college just how to address her "battery" problem.
I've had a soft spot for one of those from way back.
Figure resolving those electrical issues might not be as bad as buying a newish td vehicle. ???
10-03-2005, 08:49 PM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (tnord)
The 'rents bought 3 german cars in the '80s. An '81 300D, an '85 Audi GT, and an '89 325iX. The Merc and BMW were bulletproof and nearly trouble free (moreso the Merc). The Audi- not so much...
Peter
Peter
10-03-2005, 08:49 PM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (zygspeed)
the cost might be comparable, but then you're still stuck with an older, louder, smellier, less reliable tow vehicle that doesn't even tow all that well.
but it's cool.
but it's cool.
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10-03-2005, 08:50 PM
#8
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (tnord)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... but it's cool. </TD></TR></TABLE> 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
10-03-2005, 08:58 PM
#9
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (PoweredbyCamry)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PoweredbyCamry »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The 'rents bought 3 german cars in the '80s. An '81 300D, an '85 Audi GT, and an '89 325iX. The Merc and BMW were bulletproof and nearly trouble free (moreso the Merc). The Audi- not so much...
Peter</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ooh, wasn't that one of the "Sudden Acceleration" Audi's?
Peter</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ooh, wasn't that one of the "Sudden Acceleration" Audi's?
10-04-2005, 03:06 PM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (Chris F)
The rear suspension is a multi-link design, with lots of camber gain when loaded. Camber gain and towing makes for no so happy tires. Throw some air bags under it, and you could probably get away with it.
-Chris
-Chris
10-05-2005, 01:24 AM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (tnord)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but it's cool. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Speaking of cool (or maybe not, depending on who you are), Cadillac Fleetwoods have an obscenely high tow capacity.
Edit: http://www.edmunds.com/used/19...illac*
7000 lbs.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Speaking of cool (or maybe not, depending on who you are), Cadillac Fleetwoods have an obscenely high tow capacity.
Edit: http://www.edmunds.com/used/19...illac*
7000 lbs.
10-05-2005, 04:31 AM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (zygspeed)
It will tow a honda no problem........I am a member on this forum... [url=http://WWW.MERCEDESSHOP.COM" [/url] go over to the Diesel Discussion forum..I am Boneheaddoctor there (under a temporar ban) .THere is a guy who towed several Benzes as large os that wagon with it for a good distance (he's a bit of a *****) but he has done it for years with no problems. The Mercedes 300TD is a W123 chassis vehicle....I have both a 1983 W123 300D and a 1979 W116 Chassis 300SD. I know people there that have driven over 500,000 miles on theirs...(original engine) ...but 300K + miles is not unusual. Good solid cars. Feel free to email me if you have more specific questions.
Modified by virginia_dude at 8:44 AM 10/5/2005
Modified by virginia_dude at 9:35 AM 10/5/2005
Modified by virginia_dude at 8:44 AM 10/5/2005
Modified by virginia_dude at 9:35 AM 10/5/2005
10-05-2005, 04:34 AM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (PoweredbyCamry)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PoweredbyCamry »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Other than the fact that it can hardly pull itself up a mountain without a trailer?
J/k, my parents have an '81 300D (non-turbo). It's a great car but 120 lb-ft only seems torquey because the power drops to nothing off idle. I once drove a TD, the lag seemed to suck the best part of the powerband away (the bottom end) while not really giving much reward up top. At least the turbo makes it quieter.
I must say though, I really did like Mercedes better when they were really overbuilt, really something different rather than just a badge and fancy electronics.
Peter</TD></TR></TABLE>
The older non-turbo and the newer turbo models are very different...the turbos are extremely reliable and really have more than enough power in th emountains and still get 25+ mpg....trust me..I own two Mercedes Turbodiesels and know these very well.....like I mentioned elsewhere...I am Boneheaddoctor over at http://WWW.MERCEDESSHOP.COM and the Diesel Discussion group is where you wish to enquire.
Here are their photos in case anyone thinks I am blowing smoke...first the 1979 300SD (W116 chassis)
Modified by virginia_dude at 8:49 AM 10/5/2005
J/k, my parents have an '81 300D (non-turbo). It's a great car but 120 lb-ft only seems torquey because the power drops to nothing off idle. I once drove a TD, the lag seemed to suck the best part of the powerband away (the bottom end) while not really giving much reward up top. At least the turbo makes it quieter.
I must say though, I really did like Mercedes better when they were really overbuilt, really something different rather than just a badge and fancy electronics.
Peter</TD></TR></TABLE>
The older non-turbo and the newer turbo models are very different...the turbos are extremely reliable and really have more than enough power in th emountains and still get 25+ mpg....trust me..I own two Mercedes Turbodiesels and know these very well.....like I mentioned elsewhere...I am Boneheaddoctor over at http://WWW.MERCEDESSHOP.COM and the Diesel Discussion group is where you wish to enquire.
Here are their photos in case anyone thinks I am blowing smoke...first the 1979 300SD (W116 chassis)
Modified by virginia_dude at 8:49 AM 10/5/2005
10-05-2005, 09:49 AM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (virginia_dude)
I say buy one, call converse engineering and have them send you the kit to put a 5.0 liter v8 into it. Beef up the rear subframe, put a hitch on it and tow away!
10-05-2005, 10:03 AM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (tnord)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's an older mercedes that's gonna cost a dumptruck full of money to maintain.
80's german cars and electrical systems do not play nice together.
<----had an 88 BMW 535</TD></TR></TABLE>
The older benzes don't have electrical system issues....but the pre-82 ones do have a very nasty thing with the Automatic Climate controls......which is the same as the late 60's Chrysler Imperials ( Benz bought it from them.
The newwer Benzes Post-85 do have more electrical issues but thats related to complexity..
the 83-85 W123 is rock solid reliable...but like most things it pays to have it checked out before you buy it. They take a lot of abuse before they fail.
And an FYI...parts are not that expensive, in fact are less expensive than many of the same parts for Honda.... an example a complete Upper Control arm for the 88-89 Civic costs over twice what a new for the Benze costs...same with Ball Joints and Tie Rod ends...
THe Tan one in my above post cost $48,000 in 1979........thats almost $100,000 in todays dollars adjusted for inflation. I paid $3,200 for it with 112,000 miles 3 years ago. I put about $3,000 into fixing it up the way I like....its rust free and from Arizona.
THe Blue one I bought this past February..142,000 miles....I paid $2,800 for it.
Both get 25 MPG in a 50/50 city/highway travel, from fairfax into downtown DC every day in rush hour driving. Not bad for for a car that size and weight.
80's german cars and electrical systems do not play nice together.
<----had an 88 BMW 535</TD></TR></TABLE>
The older benzes don't have electrical system issues....but the pre-82 ones do have a very nasty thing with the Automatic Climate controls......which is the same as the late 60's Chrysler Imperials ( Benz bought it from them.
The newwer Benzes Post-85 do have more electrical issues but thats related to complexity..
the 83-85 W123 is rock solid reliable...but like most things it pays to have it checked out before you buy it. They take a lot of abuse before they fail.
And an FYI...parts are not that expensive, in fact are less expensive than many of the same parts for Honda.... an example a complete Upper Control arm for the 88-89 Civic costs over twice what a new for the Benze costs...same with Ball Joints and Tie Rod ends...
THe Tan one in my above post cost $48,000 in 1979........thats almost $100,000 in todays dollars adjusted for inflation. I paid $3,200 for it with 112,000 miles 3 years ago. I put about $3,000 into fixing it up the way I like....its rust free and from Arizona.
THe Blue one I bought this past February..142,000 miles....I paid $2,800 for it.
Both get 25 MPG in a 50/50 city/highway travel, from fairfax into downtown DC every day in rush hour driving. Not bad for for a car that size and weight.
10-05-2005, 10:06 AM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (virginia_dude)
An additional thing about the W123 Benzes, they have a very complicated vacuum system. Bulletproof drivetrains, as long as you remember to check the oil.
I learned to drive on a '79 240D with a 4 speed (that's me in the right of the picture):
I learned to drive on a '79 240D with a 4 speed (that's me in the right of the picture):
10-05-2005, 10:08 AM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (MattP)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MattP »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">An additional thing about the W123 Benzes, they have a very complicated vacuum system. Bulletproof drivetrains, as long as you remember to check the oil.
I learned to drive on a '79 240D with a 4 speed (that's me in the right of the picture):
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Both of mine have the OM617 5-cylinder turbo diesel......they hold 8 quarts of oil.
That 240D had the OM616 4 cylinder non turbo......a gutless wonder but one that runs practitcly forever very reliably.
Incidently....both the '79 and the '83 have 4 speed automatic transmissions.....how many years was it before anyone else offered one?
I learned to drive on a '79 240D with a 4 speed (that's me in the right of the picture):
</TD></TR></TABLE>Both of mine have the OM617 5-cylinder turbo diesel......they hold 8 quarts of oil.
That 240D had the OM616 4 cylinder non turbo......a gutless wonder but one that runs practitcly forever very reliably.
Incidently....both the '79 and the '83 have 4 speed automatic transmissions.....how many years was it before anyone else offered one?
10-05-2005, 10:21 AM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (virginia_dude)
Thanks again, guys.
I have little interest in swapping powerplants in something like one of these, especially with the gas/diesel issue.
However I do have a lot of parts and spares for my teg and would like to finally put together my own special kind of track beast,
but that as we all know that also entails tow vehicle and trailer considerations.
We'll see.
The TD wagon was an interesting idea, though.
I have little interest in swapping powerplants in something like one of these, especially with the gas/diesel issue.
However I do have a lot of parts and spares for my teg and would like to finally put together my own special kind of track beast,
but that as we all know that also entails tow vehicle and trailer considerations.
We'll see.
The TD wagon was an interesting idea, though.
10-05-2005, 10:29 AM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (virginia_dude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by virginia_dude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">THese are very good for doing Biodiesel or WVO conversions.......</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hehe ... smells like chicken!
And I guess that's a good thing (as opposed to that stanky diesel fragrance).
Hehe ... smells like chicken!
And I guess that's a good thing (as opposed to that stanky diesel fragrance).
10-05-2005, 10:34 AM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (virginia_dude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by virginia_dude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That 240D had the OM616 4 cylinder non turbo......a gutless wonder but one that runs practitcly forever very reliably.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ain't that the truth. I can't imagine how slow the automatics were, even with the manual 0 - 60 was in the 15+ second range.
Ain't that the truth. I can't imagine how slow the automatics were, even with the manual 0 - 60 was in the 15+ second range.
10-05-2005, 06:02 PM
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Re: Older 300TD wagon tow vehicle? (zygspeed)
Ed,
You just need to wait til the 07 Ford Super Duties come out late next year then you can buy my 2001 F250 Crew Cab PSD. It's only got 151k on it and just got 19 mpg doing 75 mph on a trip a couple of weeks ago.
You just need to wait til the 07 Ford Super Duties come out late next year then you can buy my 2001 F250 Crew Cab PSD. It's only got 151k on it and just got 19 mpg doing 75 mph on a trip a couple of weeks ago.