red0

I started racing in WRL (Home | World Racing League) for this season, and so far I absolutely love the series. It is a PWR series, and the class I want to run in from now on is 13.1 - 15.2 Weight/HP.

I am looking to find the most reliable way to get 165 WHP. We ran a B18b in March at the NCM course and won a 7 hour enduro in the 15.3+ weight/HP. For our last race we ran a B20B with a cam.

I am wondering if a restricted B18C type-R with a D15 throttle body running 7800 RPM would be more reliable than a GSR B18C1?

Here is a picture of our car:

Bently_Coop

Why run the D15 throttle body? You would be losing 6mm's in diameter. ITR=62mm D series= 56mm. B18B and B20B= 60mm

What transmission are you running?

red0

I believe the motor will make too much HP for our class, and restricting the TB will limit the HP. If we need to limit it even more, I would machine a TB restrictor plate.

We will be running the 95-97 ITR transmission.

m_shake

Is torque limited?

Kaan

iTrader: (3)

have you looked at going with a K motor? the K20A3 should get you there with bolt ons and a tune. leaves you room to tweak the power band if you dive deeper into it.

miamirice

I have seen the competitive bar raise steadily in Chumpcar over the past 4 years, but I have been very interested in this series. I love the ratio formula for classifying cars. How do they police this ? Have you done chump? Any comments on how it differs regarding quality of racing? (not the rules).

red0

No, however as torque is normally a derivative of displacement, fuel is limited so a 2.4L might be OK, however a SBC making 50% more tq than hp might not be able to run the same fuel strategy as us. You are allowed 15% more capacity than your OEM tank.

Ya, the CRV and accord K24 would probably be our best bet, but we are mid season and the car is setup for B/D series and we only have about 6 weeks to swap, track test and dyno test......so we are sticking to B series. We are mainly looking for reliability.

We started in Lemons for one year and won a race in A class. Then we went to Chump and won 4 times with 4 cars. I really enjoyed running Chump in 2011-2012, and it went down hill after that.

The WRL rules are excellent. I wasn't sure how I would like WRL because I really like the idea of single class racing, however after running 2 events it is by far the best series we have run in. Quality of racing is top notch, I will pist a video of us running GP3 (B18B 135whp from march). No contact, and cars like Honda challenge, SM, SE30, etc. can throw on 180+ TW tires and get classed well.

The have several ways of policing this, at BIR a few weeks ago they had some very sharp tech inspectors looking the cars over. If you have internal mods you could potentially get away with it for a day but they can bump you up a class if they feel they need. They are working on some accellerometer data acquisition stuff to put on suspicious cars if needed too.

Both races we were within a second of ft in class and won in GP3, and then were leading GP2 before blowing a HG with our B20.

red0

boost ben

They tried something similar in our regional series, we were in the top class with an LS3 FD-RX7. Lets just say it's impossible to police properly and comes down to the honour system. With the HUGE range of EMS systems, different induction styles, different dyno styles, it became evident that it can't be policed. They brought a dyno to the races and would select different cars (usually on finishing position) and run them over the scales and then on the dyno. Strange enough we would get walked on the up hill straight at Mosport by a car with 200 less hp than us?

I haven't herd anything about the series you guys are speaking of but the power to weight thing really didn't work for us.

I guess I'll answer the original question too! B18B non vtec with a very slight build will get you to that power and be nice and reliable. Are there any restrictions on what mods you can run?

...esteban

For 165whp and your schedule and reliability requirements, I'm not sure there is a better bet than an OE B18C for your car. The aforementioned K20A3 is probably the best long term solution, but at least the B18C would still be a factory build capable of taking the abuse.

Egezzy

iTrader: (2)

The only thing that I can say about the 165/throttle body idea is that my motor; B16a/H2 specs, is 165 limited as well. I am running the stock air box with a drop in K&N, 2.75 pipe running to the box, then hose running to the bumper. The airbox restriction killed my midrange, BIG time. My car from 4500-mid/upper 5s is a dog.

Caoboy

From the Rule Book (for those asking questions)

1 Car Classification System
a. Class determination: A car’s Class is determined primarily by its PWR - Power to Weight Ratio - expressed
here as pounds per horsepower (example: 15:1 or simply “15”)
b. Calculating PWR: World Racing League calculates power to weight ratio using a car’s weight as-raced (less
driver and cool shirt water) divided by the motor’s factory rated/published net horsepower (BHP). PWR
results will be rounded down to the nearest tenth.
 Proof of HP: Teams must provide a printout of factory-rated BHP for their motor from one of the
following online resources: automobile-catalog.com; edmunds.com; wikipedia.org. Document must
show correct year, model, displacement, engine code, etc. Dyno numbers, if available, may be used as
backup. See section 5.b. below
 Vehicle Weight: WRL will weigh cars at the track, no driver, empty coolers, fuel tank full.
c. Provisions are made for non-stock, modified and swapped engines (covered later in this Appendix).
2 Basic Performance Modifications: All cars, regardless of Class, are allowed to make the following Basic
Performance Modifications (BPM). If your car is prepped at this level it will automatically fall into a class
listed in Section 6 based on its power to weight ratio alone. If your car is prepped above this level it is still
legal to race but will be subject to additional scrutiny and possible class change.
a. Carburetor tuning: Open
b. ECU: Must be OEM hardware. No standalone, piggyback or otherwise aftermarket engine timing/fuel
control. Chipping, socketing and/or reflashing of the OEM ECU is allowed
c. Brakes: Stock master cylinder or OEM equivalent. Calipers, pads and rotors open. Complete aftermarket
high-performance systems (Brembo, Wilwood, etc) may incur a PWR modifier. Proportioning valves are
allowed
d. Springs: Metallic springs open. May heat or cut
e. Shocks/Struts: Open. Adjustable dampers, remote reservoirs, racing-specific systems, changing oil viscosity
or re-valving will incur a PWR modifier
f. Other Suspension: Sway bars, panhard/Watts linkage and camber plates are open. Adjustable front, upper
control arms are allowed. Bending suspension members to alter geometry is allowed. Reinforcing
suspension attachment points to gain durability is allowed
g. Bushings: Open
h. Aero: Any homemade aero is allowed
i. Wheels: Open
j. Tires: DOT approved with tread wear (UTQC) of 180 or higher
k. Air filters: Open
l. Cooling: Transmission and oil coolers allowed. Aftermarket radiator allowed
m.Lubrication: Accusumps and baffles allowed
n. Exhaust: Open, must have some form of muffler and meet sound restrictions listed in Race Information
o. Weight reduction: Open, but the exterior skin, and chassis structural integrity must be retained. Fenders,
hoods, trunk lids, firewalls, floors and inner wheel wells must remain intact. Alternate bodies are eligible
but must be approved
p. Driver comfort and information: Cooling, gauges, control devices, data and telemetry systems are open
3 Additional modifications: Modifications not listed in Section 2 above are allowed, but may require a PWR
modifier based solely on the discretion of the Officials after a thorough inspection of the number and extent
of the additional modifications.
World Racing League Rules and Procedures
Ver: 201501.03 ©2014, 2015 World Racing League LLC Page 13 of 16
4 Engine and Drivetrain Swaps: Engine/drivetrain swaps are allowed under the following conditions:
 Non-OE drivetrain must be fully disclosed (includes engine, trans, diff, clutch assy, etc)
 Unless modified, the new motor’s BHP will be used to calculate PWR
5 Alternative Classing Process: Cars that are prepared beyond the BPM level in Section 2 may provide the
following data to assist officials in classifying their cars. This information will be considered in addition to the
WRL Disclosure sheet and inspection by the race officials. Acceptance of this information is at the stewards
discretion:
a. Official timing sheets from other organized competition events - must be at the same track and
configuration as the upcoming WRL event where the car will race
b. Dyno sheets will be accepted as supporting evidence only, but will not be considered exclusively as
evidence of the car’s power
6 Competition Classes
a. Cars are classed per their PWR rating which includes any PWR modifiers assigned. Competition classes are
eligible for podium awards (1st
-3
rd) and other awards, purses, and contingency awards:
 GP4-Cars with a PWR higher than 1:18.0
 GP3-Cars with a PWR of 1:15.3 to 1:18.0
 GP2- Cars with a PWR of 1:13.1 to 1:15.2
 GP1- Cars with a PWR of 1:11.0 to 1:13.0
b. Ballast: Any ballast added to the car must be properly secured and disclosed at safety inspection. Teams
may not voluntarily add ballast for the purpose of re-classing their car into a lower class.
c. Under-subscription: For any given race, any class that has less than 4 entries may be combined with
another class, with cars handicapped accordingly per race officials’ discretion
d. Darwin Rule: Officials may move any car to another class if it has a demonstrated history of under or over
performing in its current class
e. GPX Class: Cars that meet WRL safety requirements but cannot otherwise be classed per this Appendix, or
that fall below a PWR of 11.0 with or without PWR modifiers will be classified as GPX. Cars in GPX are
eligible for podium awards (1st place only), contingencies and sponsor awards/support, but are not eligible
for purses. Basic criteria:
 Any race-prepared production-based car, or any full-body, purpose-built race car that can maintain a
PWR of 1:9.0 or higher (examples: NASA or SCCA GT, SCCA SRF)
 Pre-approval to race from WRL officials.
 Any car in GPX that outperforms the field to the extent that the race officials feel that the speed
differential may create a risk will not be allowed to race
7 Petition Process: A team may petition World Racing League for a class change if their car does not comply
with the current rules, or after it has complete at least 1 WRL race. Petition must be made in writing at least
15 days in advance of the race and must include supporting evidence justifying the request
8 Enforcement: WRL may require any team(s) to submit their car for monitoring and testing to determine
accurate horsepower numbers either before or after a race. Methods include at-the-track dyno runs and
installation of a WRL-provided data acquisition box. Data will be adjusted to reflect crank horsepower.

miamirice

Thanks for posting. Are there any/many GPX cars? There are a lot of type R Hondas or K-swaps that would fall into this class with a 10:1, Is there turn out?

Jujutsuka

Personally i'd go for a VTEC from B16 type R.
I notice in your racing video you like to hold to revs in some corners rather than shifting up. With high revving engine you'll have more REVS to play with before having to shift.

red0

Only a few, as most people building for the series havn't finished yet. Most of the cars have been Spec miata, spec E30, Honda challenge cars, Chump Cars, people with E36 M3s.

I think GP1 and GPX will get popular in the next year or so, right now GP2 and GP3 have been the largest.

I am afraid the lack of tq with the B16 would leave us struggling against cars like a 328i.

johnjw

subscribed

Honda Type R

A B18R would be right around 160whp with the stock header and a stock airbox. I can say first hand that a B16B is lacking in TQ. I had one in an EK hatch. I have a B18R and it does well but I feel it needs a 4.7 final here in the mountains. If you're at sea level it may be fine. I'm also in a full weight 4 door Integra with A/C and PS. I say go for the ITR motor and restrict if needed. For the future consider using a B18C crank and rods in a B20 block and limit revs to 8k. The reduced stroke will reduce load on the cylinder walls and reduce block flex. Also the rotating assembly will be better suited for high RPM use. Also consider a CRV K24A1. It makes 160hp/160tq stock!

cheapskate

My stock b18c1 with intake, header, and exhaust dyno'd at 165whp on the nuts.

mattbatson

perhaps something with lots of broad power under the curve?
I would think something that you don't need to rev to the moon, with power everywhere, would be better for a power to weight class and endurance racing?
larger displacement...like b20 or H?

sowellman88011

you should be fine with a b18c5. but where do you live and is there an official dyno? If its a mustang dyno then youre fine if its a dynopak then you might want to see what others with that engine are putting down on it.
my local super lap we go by pwr also and it is a honor system, but if someone thinks someone else is cheating then they can protest and the car has 30days to go use the dyno and they put anti-tamper tape over anything that can be altered.

Honda Type R

That's decent. My friends 98 Spec R with a 60mm catback and an Ice Box did 163whp with the stock P73 ECU on a dynojet

red0

Ordered a B18C type-R today.

Honda Type R

Nice! Full swap or just a longblock?

Tegra206

iTrader: (2)

my stock jdm B18cr put down 127tq/173.8 whp with slight exhaust and cold air intake. A usdm B18c5 with stock exhaust manifold and air intake should have you right where you want it, even might be able to get away with not down grading the throttle body. I say B18C5 will have you kicking the crap outs people!!!!! And they were built for that, so there's the reliablity factor also going for you.

red0

It is the entire front clip minus the following:

Sheet metal dash and gauge cluster.

We have the correct salvage # to get the full clip, but customs is giving us some heat.