RR98ITR

Racecar Engineering June 2015 Mark Ortiz took up some questions bearing upon front wheel drive cars and sway bars and lifting (wheels)...

Scott, who only drives kars that need to lift the inside rear...Someday I've Got to drive something proper...

rice_classic

This article is rather timely.

thawley

Feels kinda like time travel...

Thawley – who needs a jack-stand emoji

chad

this is a thread only the og's will understand....still lifting inside rear in the corners!!! :/

RR98ITR

Hey Thawley! Hey Chad!

So, the next issue, July 2015 has Ortiz discussing the Nissan GT-R LM Nismo thing...and while way more the kind of discussion I'm interested in than anything else I've read previously about that car, it doesn't add much to the body of public knowledge.

Mark Hughes wrote a book about the Lotus Elan (M100 - Front Wheel Drive) - maybe John Miles told him interesting development stories and maybe he transcribed them?

Scott, who thinks the apogee of interest in front wheel drive is behind us...

Kaan

iTrader: (3)

need to find a copy... I love when the old stuff comes up again.

kristo

Some (details) of the physics are or seem to me wrong:
It is not the tires that provide the car's mass' counterforce (centripetal force) in a turn, it is the (force generated by the friction provided by the) road.*
On a more conceptual note, that the force exerted by the car's mass in a turn is inertial is true, but "equal and opposite inertial reaction force" is nonsense, or at least bad conceptual language, since the inertiality has nothing to do with being a reaction to the road's friction.
That said, it is more logical instead to speak of the friction force of the road as being an 'equal and opposite reaction' to the force of the incoming car's mass.

Further on:
If I am to understand by 'to overturn' to bodyroll, and by 'the tires' the road's friction, or some mysterious meaning, the latter preventing the car from bodyrolling doesn't seem true: as stated in the text, both the forces of road and car's mass work horizontally, they don't prevent the car from going vertical and roll over. The car's weight does - or more correct: the gravitation force acting on the car's mass.

*treated explicitly in 'Physics for Scientists and Engineers' by Giancoli: CHAPTER 5: 'USING NEWTON’S LAWS: FRICTION, CIRCULAR MOTION, DRAG FORCES'; 5.4 'Highway Curves: Banked and Unbanked'. In fact, it was an exam question for me

RR98ITR

"You gotta overturn a front wheel drive kaa moar to get it to rotate"

Scott, who has found himself in frequent disagreement with physics...ain't nevar beat it yet though...

ferio-ichi3

Id like to understand what is being spoken here.. wish i was an O.G

Xian

Having gone down the FWD handling rabbit hole and sorting it all out (or thinking I did), I've found the FINAL SOLUTION.









It involves buying a RWD car with an *** ton of power and tire.

Greyout

where does *** ton fit with Long ton, short ton, and metric ton

RR98ITR

You don't need a ton of power...I put my *** in one of these...

Scott, who solved the front wheel drive problem...the answer is...a different problem...

Xian

"A different problem" huh? Yeah, I guess that could describe my situation too...

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Holy crap its Thawley. Doood are you still doing so cal HC?
The way back has gone through some changes.
Good to see you back online.. the rumors of your demise has been greatly exaggerated.
Now if Johnny appears that might be cool too.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to go ahead and leave this right here:

RR98ITR

...and I'm just going to go ahead and leave THIS:

Scott, who just looked up and saw this and thought "That's what I'm trying to say!"...

Xian

Yup. Keep the inside just *barely* off the ground and you're golden.

thawley

No. I spend my weekends at youth water polo tournaments these days. Car is still in the garage, though.

Probly have to do something about that some day.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Ok Scott... I think I found the cure to "one wheel in the air"
Haven't see tons of footage on this car but I've never seen the rear wheels lift.
Video: Nissan ZEOD RC Laps Top Gear Track In 1:05.3 | car News @ Top Speed

More info on the car.

RR98ITR

What disease do you think I have?

Scott, who, knowing three wheels is wrong, knows which way of doing three wheels is wronger...(yes I know it has four wheels but only numerically and I'm not all hung up on numeracy, numerics, numerology, or numeracity)....

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Cure your curiosity!
Solve the mystery of how to make the wheels stay on the ground.

redzcstandardhatch

I simply adore every thread scott has ever made.

RR98ITR

Thanks Adam. I really enjoyed writing over the years, and I'm very glad to have provided entertainment for others at least as much as for myself. It sure felt like an epicenter of something good shared by some really great people...who came and went over time...and I miss my favorites. Real life got harder, and so did the biters, and eventually I felt like my online habitat was dissolving into something I felt less a part of and less desire to be a part of. The clincher was what I perceived as a hard edged tribalism - turned me off in a heartbeat. I spent a few years hardly writing at all, and when I did it was usually about the same old tired subjects (that nonetheless continue to surprise me with inexhaustible potential for making fun). I feel bad that I probably drove Claude away with my testy argumentation. Maybe he just burned out too. But we did some really good work while we were at it, and I take a lot of satisfaction from it.

The Nissan machine has been a surprise opportunity to see what really high powered brains can do with this problem we've saddled ourselves with. What can they prove? And what would it prove? Or what if they disproved? And satisfied peoples disapproval? At least it's conceptual and you can wrap your head around it, unlike countless iterations of simulations and optimizations of the invisible. I'm as modern an anachronism as I can be.

I like, Love, the Elements and the Fundaments. I don't even care if they vex me for years. I can own them. Eventually.

I Love my Kart. You KNOW I had to try everything But what my guru told me would work. And with July almost over I'm finally ready to get it off the stand and drive it for the first time this year. I had to get some logistical stuff done first. It's always something.

Scott, who Loves driving most of all...it's Bliss...and Bliss is the best shelter I've found from the relentlessness of time...

Xian

I recall the "hard edged tribalism"... though I didn't think much of it at the time, I really wish it hadn't chased you off. Your threads/posts were (and still are) little gems that I look forward to discovering and one of the reasons I wandered back here. I won't ask you to come back over to the other place but I will say that you're missed by many and would be a great addition (again).

FWIW, I've since tried some other non-tribal endorsed options and been amazed at what they can do and how they can transform a car. Driver/chassis dependent of course but I don't think that they're a requirement to go fast... they certainly do make the speed more accessible and adjustment for conditions way easier though.

One thing that time and experience has provided me is perspective. Not just the perspective to acknowledge that there are other solutions to the same equation but that perhaps those other solutions are at least as good as the one I've identified. And even if someone else comes up with one of these different answers, the ability to let others roll with what works for them... even if it's wrong.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

I too enjoy your writings over the years Scott.
The humor and insight to complex issues makes me think.... HMMMMMMMM and laugh at the same time.
Don't ever think for one minute that it's a put off to anyone.
I appreciate your posts, and the writing as the second person at the end of each one.
keep the thoughts flowing, I'm always reading them.