Floyd

I would be writing this up for my website, but I don't have one yet, so I'll post here instead.

I bought a Motive Products pressurized bleeder system a while ago and used it only a couple times because I wasn't happy with the way it works. The universal adaptor that fits Hondas is strapped on to the brake fluid reservoir with a chain and some J-bolts with wingnuts. (Those European bastards get a cap that screws on. )

Here is a pic of the standard cap:



The bottom side of the black piece has a rubber mat, and the J-bolts come up through the two holes to strap it tight onto the opening of the reservoir. You then pump up a tank that you fill with fresh fluid, and it forces the fluid into the reservoir and pressurizes the whole system. Then you go from wheel to wheel and open the bleed screw and sit back and relax while the old fuid gets replaced by the new.

The concept is good, but when I tried to use it, I had mixed results. The problem I had was brake fluid leaking at the seal where the rubber mat under the cap meets the reservoir opening. And when your system is under pressure, this can result in quite a mess. If you don't tighten the thumbscrews enough, you won't get a good seal, but if you overtighten them, the black piece flexes and you won't get a good seal.

So, I went to my local Home Depot looking for parts that I could use to strengthen the cap and improve the seal at the reservoir, and look what I found in the plumming isle:



A 3" galvanized pipe flange! [Edit: Or was it a 2 1/4" pipe flange! I'll double check.] As it turns out, this is just what I needed to do the trick. I also picked up a small hose clamp, 2 more J-bolts, matching wing nuts, and some better chain.

The first step is to remove one of the clamps that hold the tube that goes from the pump to the black cap, so you can feed the hose through the hole in the pipe flange. I learned the hard way that the nipple that the hose is clamped to on the black pice is pretty weak, so I recommend removing the clamp on the pump side with a hack saw (and not trying to pry the clamp off of the cap side with a flat-tip screwdriver and a hammer. )

Slip the hose through the flange (the right way) and clamp the hose back to the Motive pump, and you're done. Install it on the car, and this is what you get:



Because the flange is putting all of the force on the black cap right above the rim of the reservoir opening, and not on the outside, you can really tighten those suckers down. And since you have two chains, and four J-bolts, you can do a better job of adjusting the pressure so it is even all around.

I was quite happy with the results, and I was able to do a complete brake flush without a single drop of fluid leaking at the seal.


[Modified by Floyd, 11:39 PM 6/13/2002]


[Modified by Floyd, 10:00 AM 8/26/2002]

Warren

Nice job!

I'll be picking up a few pieces at Home Depot soon, thanks.

I've gotten pretty decent at adjusting the regular Motive cap, but this would make it a lot easier, and worry free.

btw - don't crank don't TOO hard on the cap, or the reservoir might split.

Warren

kkim

thanks for the info, Floyd.

now I can use that motive bleeder I bought a few months ago but was afraid to use because I didn't want brake fluid leaking in my engine compartment.

Floyd

Before you run out and buy the pipe flange, let me double check the size. I thought it was a 3", but the receipt says 2 1/4". I will measure it tomorrow to make sure, and get back to you. Sorry!

Or, you could take the Motive cap with you and find one that fits just right.

kkim

you should forward your info to motive. their product could use some improvements like this to better the bleeder.

any info you could provide would be helpful, though I think I'll be able to find something which will work now that you've shared your idea. thanks!

Back in Black

Awesome thread, David! PLEASE bring it to Summit next weekend!

BryanSprinkel

Guess this means I'm going back to ACE hardware.

Thanks David, I think

BSQ

Question. Could you replace the black Motive cap with a stock master cylinder cap?


[Modified by BSQ, 11:21 AM 6/14/2002]

Warren

I think I understand what you're asking, and the answer is no.

Ideally, we would take a stock reservoir cap, drill a hole in it, and put in a barbed fitting. I don't think this works on Hondas though, because the cap is not really a screw on design, and thus, won't be able to hold 20 psi of pressure.

Warren

Floyd

Exactly. I thought of this as well, but I agree, the stock cap couldn't hold 15-20 psi, IMO. Now, what would it take to swap the reservoir with one from a European car so we can get the screw on cap?


[Modified by Floyd, 8:32 AM 6/14/2002]

Floyd

I'm heading to my parents house right now, which is where I work on my car. I'll post the size up in an hour.

Floyd

Okay, I'm not sure what the official size of the flange is, but...

Inside Dia is approx. 2.25"
Overall outside Dia is approx 5.25"
Hole spacing is 4.0" on center

Hope that helps. Sorry I can't tell you what will be wirtten on the tag on the shelf, but the 1st one I bought was too small, so I went back and got a different one, and I must have spent 30 min standing in front of them measuring each one.

The hole spacing is important because the bolts need to clear the OD of the standard black cap.

-David

delSolLS

After a disasterous day of bleeding brakes at a track lapping event, I did the "Floyd Upgrade" to my Motive bleeder.

Works like a charm! So nice to be at the rear of the car and not suddenly notice a drip of brake fluid coming from the front of the car

I about threw my pressure bleeder in the trash after my last experience. Hadn't had much trouble with it before, but when it lets loose what a mess.

Thanks for the info and the leg work

Tommy_Gunns

Nooooo...the pics are gone, and I was just informed of this thread. Bring them back, bring them back....pretty please.

Adrift

Motive makes adaptors for imports. The part number for the honda adaptor (and subaru) is 1101.

http://www.motiveproducts.com

Floyd

Fixed

krshultz

Excellent tips, thanks.

tegtyper

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Floyd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Before you run out and buy the pipe flange, let me double check the size. I thought it was a 3", but the receipt says 2 1/4". I will measure it tomorrow to make sure, and get back to you. Sorry!

.</TD></TR></TABLE>

2" NPT (Tapered Thread) is approx 2.25""ID.

WRXRacer111

Couldn't you just get another stock M/C cap, drill and thread it with a hose fitting and use a pair of zipties to clamp it to the reservoir?

Floyd

Wow. Dug up from the archives.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WRXRacer111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Couldn't you just get another stock M/C cap, drill and thread it with a hose fitting and use a pair of zipties to clamp it to the reservoir?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I never tried it because the seal on the stock cap doesn't look like it could handle being pressurized.

I was contemplating removing the stock reservoir and replacing it with something else that I could quickly connect/disconnect the Motive. Or, even better yet, a quick release fitting from an air tank. How easy would that be for a quick bleed.

martini

I'd just like to say, that I've never had any leakage problems with my motive bleeder.

the first couple times I used it, it was hard to learn to use...but It works like a charm now that I got it figured out.

Art Vandeleigh

how much psi to do you all pressurize the system with??

Floyd

Somewhere around 15 psi. The manual warns against much more than that.

methred_92

Here is all you need.

2 barb fittings, teflon tape, wire hanger, appropriate size tubing and hose clamps

one barb on the brake fluid bottle cap, one on the resevoir cap
wire hanger to hang the bottle on your hood latch

Gravity feed baby!

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by methred_92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is all you need.

2 barb fittings, teflon tape, wire hanger, appropriate size tubing and hose clamps

one barb on the brake fluid bottle cap, one on the resevoir cap
wire hanger to hang the bottle on your hood latch

Gravity feed baby!

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Still dont get it....

You need some home depot vacuum t00b ($3), zip tie and a catch can. Thats it!!!!!!

I'm done.

RJ - who will teach class at VIR on brake bleeding