Benny Z

Has anyone tried out the new Kuhmo Ecsta V700 race tires?

I was going to get the Victoracer V700s, but they're only available in a 205 width for 13" wheels.

The Ecsta V700s are available in 235/45/13, which is why I'm leaning towards them. I would have them shaved 4/32nds and heat cycled.

...no, I'm not going to spring for the Hoosiers (at least not this season)...

owen_the_soyboy

The guy in Buffalo that has a Hybrid EG hatch was running those last year and he loved them. The grip he got was amazing and persuaded me to go for the same setup... Ecsta V700 in 235 wide on Diamond wheels. He got excellent times and there are a few other guys running the same size Wheels but they have gone with Hoosiers which are almost twice as much money... yikes!

tunes12

I have the 235 45 13 on a 7 inch wheel for my 95 si, and I love them. I would like to see the new v710 in this size but I'm not sure that's going to happen, at least not in time for this season.

ragnaroek

hey there, benny z!!

(this being miatarice from cii)

Watkinsm3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Benny Z &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Has anyone tried out the new Kuhmo Ecsta V700 race tires?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can't keep track of the kumho compunds on which model tire. What I can say is that given the same tire size I would always choose the victoracer over the ecsta. I like the feel. Its consistent. Its no Hoosier but then again... Hoosiers are about 30% more per tire.

RineRacing

If you get Ecsta V700s you could end up with one of 3 compounds

Softest
K6A- The best
K8A- Not as good
K9A- Haven't tried it yet but I'm not expecting them to be very good.
Hardest

As far as I know the K8A is no longer used and the newest set I just got was K9A, which is new to me. I never tried the Victoracers because they never came in a good 13" size.

If it's your first set of r-tires then I wouldn't worry about what compound you get. It will take you a little while to get used to them regardless of it they are the best compound or not.

bb6h22a

I asked a similar question a while agon, and got some very good info from my friend John. Here are his lap times on various R compounds done with a club racer m5:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Here are lap times with the M5 (Summit Point's 2.4 mile main course)

Hoosiers 1.28
Kuhmo's 1.30-1.31
Yokos 1.32-1.33

The Yoko is a good rain tire but as a dry compound R tire it's at the bottom of the list.

Maybe a Hoosier isn't a good comparison, eventhough it's a R compound tire it blows the kuhmo into the weeds.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

And, here's his scale [best to worst] of r compounds, and their performance

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Hoosier
Hankook
Michelin Pilot Cup
Kumhos (ECSTA and V700)
Toyo (tied with Kumho)
Yoko</TD></TR></TABLE>

Xian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Geratol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you get Ecsta V700s you could end up with one of 3 compounds

Softest
K6A- The best
K8A- Not as good
K9A- Haven't tried it yet but I'm not expecting them to be very good.
Hardest

As far as I know the K8A is no longer used and the newest set I just got was K9A, which is new to me. I never tried the Victoracers because they never came in a good 13" size.

If it's your first set of r-tires then I wouldn't worry about what compound you get. It will take you a little while to get used to them regardless of it they are the best compound or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I just ordered 4 235/45 13's from Tirerack so I'll give you a rundown on the info I got from the phone rep:

#1- he called the warehouse and his "Kumho Expert" and verified that ll the 235/45's they've been receiving for the last few months are the K9A compound and as far as he knows will continue to be... he didn't have any info as to whether the K9A is as sticky or harder than the K6A.

#2- His "Expert" also had no info on if/when Kumho might release the new V710 in 13" sizes...

RineRacing

Hmm, some "Expert"

Xian

yeah, he had answers for just about nothing... other than that K9A is the only compound available right now hope it doesn't suck too badly b/c I can't justify/afford Hoosiers right now.

owen_the_soyboy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Xian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hope it doesn't suck too badly b/c I can't justify/afford Hoosiers right now.</TD></TR></TABLE> I agree... hopefully the "hard" compound will still be okay for a lightweight hybrid hatch

MEANB18

I enjoyed the V700 race tires we had on the corvette this year, There is still quite a bit of tread left on the tires, and we tracked the car nearly every weekend, at high and low speed events, even a couple drag races. Great tires in my opinion. Though I never had a problem with my victoracers on my honda.

jsi

We used a set of the 235-45-13 K6A (unshaved, un-heatcycled) on the CRX last year. Worked amazingly well. Awesome wear too. After 80-90 autox runs there was still easily 4.5-5/32 tread remaining.

No idea on the K9A, other than second hand info saying that they are relative bricks compared to the K6A. But you know how reliable second hand info can be, especially on the internet...

Hopefully Geratol will post a review on these as soon as he tries them out.

Xian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hopefully Geratol will post a review on these as soon as he tries them out. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I've planning to attend events on 1-11, 1-18, and 1-25... I'll post up inital impressions next week.

FWIW, this will be my first time on 13's but I've run R compounds at autoX and HPDE's for the last 2 years on my Hype R

Benny Z

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Xian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
#2- His "Expert" also had no info on if/when Kumho might release the new V710 in 13" sizes...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I decided to go to the source. I emailed "Jim", who is the Kumho sales rep in my part of the country:

"Hi Ben,
While we will have a tire in the dimension you request it will not be available until August or September of 2004.
Thanks,
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Zimmerman [mailto:ben.zimmerman.xxxx@statefarm.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:40 AM
To: 'JMilhaupt@KumhoTireUSA.com'
Cc: Ben Zimmerman; bennyz@centralillinoisimports.org
Subject: V710s


Jim,

I am a Solo II autocrosser and am curious if you know if/when the V710 will be released in 13" sizes. Also, do you know what specific sizes the tires will be available in for 13" wheels? I've got a set of 13x8 wheels and am hoping the V710s will be released in the same 235/45/13 size as the Ecsta V700s in time for the first race of our season.

Thanks!

Ben Zimmerman
Client/Server Environment Steward
State Farm Insurance Companies "


gah!

RineRacing

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Hopefully Geratol will post a review on these as soon as he tries them out. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Our first autocross of the year is on Feb 1. Looks like Xian will be the first to test them.

jsi

Sigh...Autocross in January and February. Lucky bastards...

We dont start until mid-may and even then, there's a risk of a snow-out...

Xian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sigh...Autocross in January and February. Lucky bastards...

We dont start until mid-may and even then, there's a risk of a snow-out... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, no shoveling snow here and year round autoX

Then again we don't have many nice racetracks around here... Sebring is 4-5 hours south of me, Moroso is 2-3 hours south, and Roebling is 2 hours north. Sometimes I think that I'd like to be more central to the NE tracks but then I remember that you guys having to deal with winter... and you Canadians way up there have got to be insane to deal with the cold and snow!

back On Topic: yep, I'll give them a spin, pun possibly intended as the car was REALLY loose at the last autoX, and I'll post some results next week!

jsi

Temperatures going down to around -30C (~ minus 20F) minus another 12-15 degrees with the windchill. Brrrrr.... Ah well, at least we're a short drive away from great tracks like Mt. Tremblant, Mosport, Watkins Glen, Mid-Ohio to name a few.

Ok... [/thread hijack]

Post your review of the K9A as soon as you can...

Xian

I'll post my impression on either Sunday or Monday

RacinmySi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb6h22a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I asked a similar question a while agon, and got some very good info from my friend John. Here are his lap times on various R compounds done with a club racer m5:

And, here's his scale [best to worst] of r compounds, and their performance

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I question the M5 clubracer as indicative of real testing

Besides the new Kumho is smoking all of them

Real tire tests of the Kumho's typically show the Hoosier just a tick quicker for first couple laps and then it falls below the Kumho for what would be a real race length.
Real tests run qualifying sessions over and over and over and real race lengths over and over with consistent lap times or the lap is thrown out. The data is then compared 10 races versus 10 races (each lap) to determine averages. These tests are done with on-site engineers that compare the data and certify the averages. The testing is done with a variety of sizes and variety of cars (front and rear wheel). Obviously when a new tire is being tested all tire manufacturer's test competitor's tires. The goal? Of course be faster for the duration of a race. Almost all tires tests come out within 1-5 tenths across the board between 3-4 manufacturers. Anyone that tests and comes seconds apart is not doing a real test and it has more to do with setup or preference than the tire.

Lastly personal preference on a tire lies with each driver. All tires are not created equal, nor all all drivers, nor are all conditions or vehicle setups. Real testing removes these factors by having several drivers run over and over and over with the same car all while measuring weather conditions.

RacinmySi

Also worth noting that the previous 700 different compound Kumho's are good for different conditions

Also that is correct info on the timeline on the 13" unfortunately. I guess supply and demand


Modified by RacinmySi at 11:10 PM 1/9/2004

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacinmySi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Real tire tests </TD></TR></TABLE>

Keep in mind that 99% of us do not have the time, patience, resources or budget for such shenanigans...... and would rather just drive.

jsi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacinmySi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Real tire tests of the Kumho's typically show the Hoosier just a tick quicker for first couple laps and then it falls below the Kumho for what would be a real race length.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

So it is my assumption that the new Kumho is really a road-race compound and would not be the ideal setup for auto-x. Unless there is an auto-x compound in the works?...

RacinmySi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Keep in mind that 99% of us do not have the time, patience, resources or budget for such shenanigans...... and would rather just drive.</TD></TR></TABLE>

.RJ:

I don't understand this post. I was not implying that any individual should conduct testing like this (sorry if it seemed this way). I was however implying that the manufacturer's do go to the effort to put a competitive product on the market.

The shenanigan's I was trying to point out were that real testing like I described has never yielded results of 3 seconds a lap difference as an aggregate average like the club racer M5's results.

If this were the case Kumho would be out of business as their tire couldn't carry a profitable price. The chart in that post tells me that they should rename their tires Vbackmarker.

When I say the new tire is going to be the **** for road racing as it is consistently better than other choices that are currently out from other manufacturer's. They also were quite a bit faster. I say "quite" but keep in mind my comments about real tire tests and how close the results are. I am not familiar with the autocross plans although I will do some checking.

To take a page out of some longtimers leaving a closing thought...

Tim who says if a tire was 3 seconds a lap faster then other tires available then they would be:

a) too expensive for anyone except rich racers to buy
b) would not need a contingency program therefore less support for racers
c) would cause the other tire companies to quit wasting development and engineering time and money and would drop competition tires from their lineup as it is not a big money maker as it is.
d) would not care about longevity