914Racer

I will be interested to see the first failure mode of your wrapped manifold. Most steel manifolds can't take the punishment that the wrap amplifies.

descartesfool

Where did you get that? Here is a response I got from Jeremy Thompson of Full-Race just last December:

"As far as wrapping goes, its fine to wrap our manifolds and downpipes"

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the support lol!!

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Thanks lol

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Got my turbo blanket in the mail today, talk about perfect timing! Now it is a ebay version, but I'm hopeful that it will still do pretty good. Currently I'm in talks with DEI to try and get one of their's for testing purposes. It's clear skies outside and starting to warm up to our testing temperature so let me get off of here and do some more testing. Here is a quick photo:



Will have some test results in a few hours and I'll be conducting the test on the following:

60 mph roll (post wrapped manifold)
Turbo blanket under hood temps (idle)
Turbo blanket under hood temps (60 mph)
Charge piping temps IAT and probe (idle/60mph/WOT)
*Depending on charge piping temps will determine if Reflect A Gold heat tape is applied. If heat tape is applied before and after data will be posted. Thanks everyone for the ideas and support.

EGUK

Exellent, look forward to some more results.

Wish it was warming up here..... currently -1 degress... snow on the ground, cant get the hatch out.

914Racer

I have seen the scaling, corrosion, and general deterioration of wrapped manifolds and down pipes. I have had to fix the cracks that result in the steel being baked to death. The metal changes when it is subject to the heat loads exacerbated by the wrap. Sorry 304 and mild steel are well beyond their operating range unwrapped, go wrap them and it gets worse. I don't see anyone building normal Honda headers out of 321 or Inconel, so I can pretty much guarantee there will be cracking of the manifolds.

As for the testing, skip the DEI blanket, it is an over priced version of the
http://www.ptpturboblankets.com/
They are OK, but they eventually burn through. One of my customers just had to replace his third PTP blanket. Its on a turbo time trial car. I got him this as a better replacement:
http://vibrantperformance.com/catalo...1355_1356_1362

They are a formed heat shield that doesn't touch the turbine housing. They leave an air gap which does a much better job of insulating the radiant heat without the damage to the casting. If you look at many LMP cars and Indy cars, they use a clamshell type insulation around their headers like this, The airgap is what does the insulation and it holds up significantly better without baking the chromium out of the manifolds.

AllMotorDan

in for the results!!

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Ok got some more results, sorry it took so long but I was able to do the following test over the weekend:

-60 mph post turbo manifold wrap temp test
-Turbo blanket underhood temps @ idle
-Turbo blanket 60 mph test
*Spool time improvements noticed
-Charge piping temp test @ turbo (14" away from turbo) (idle)
-Charge piping temp test @ turbo (14" away from turbo) (60mph)
-Charge piping temp test @ turbo (14" away from turbo) (WOT 12.2 psi)
-Charge piping temp test @ throttle body (idle)
-Charge piping temp test @ throttle body (60mph)
-Charge piping temp test @ throttle body (WOT 12.6 psi)

I did include pictures of my data logs for the aforementioned test. I was not able to get closer to the turbo during the charge piping test because I was doing this in the driveway and couldn't get to it. Time, money and a lot of effort has gone into this, so hopefully this information will be useful to all! On to the results.

Temperatures dropped dramatically after the turbo manifold was wrapped while cruising at 60 mph. Temperatures dropped from 113 degrees to 58 degrees for a total temperature reduction of 55 degrees from the probe behind the driver's side headlight.



Next I moved the probe next to the radiator and drop in temperature was noted there as well. Before temperature readings came in at 102 degrees, this time after the manifold was wrapped temps came in at 56 degrees for a total reduction of 46 degrees.



Next I moved the probe between the intake manifold and firewall and a drop in temperature was noted there as well. Temperatures before the manifold wrap came in at 138 degrees, after the wrap temps came in at 87 degrees for a total reduction of 54 degrees.



An average reduction of 66 degrees in the engine bay while cruising at 60 mph, that is pretty substantial.

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Ok next up I installed my turbo blanket and conducted an idle and 60 mph roll temperature test in the same manner as the last test.

The first temperature taken was from behind the driver's side headlight at idle. An average reduction of 10 degrees was noted.



I then moved the probe behind the radiator and an average reduction of 5 degrees was noted.



I then moved the probe between the intake manifold and firewall and an average reduction of 9 degrees was noted.



The turbo blanket netted a total under hood temperature reduction of 8 degrees at idle.

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Now came the 60 mph test of the turbo blanket. This test was conducted a little different then the rest, as the temperature taken from behind the driver's side headlight was about the same as the temperature taken (Post Heat Wrap @ 60 mph). After taking the initial reading behind the headlight and noticing that it was the same I did not go further and take the other two readings.

The temperature noted was about the same as the temperature noted during the 60 mph roll (post mani wrap). There was actually an increase in temp by 1 degree. So I think it's safe to say that the turbo blanket did not help us here although my oil temps were higher during this test.

*An increase in spool time was noticed during this test (butt dyno) lol, but I will compare data logs to confirm.

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Next up was the charge piping temperature testing. The entire probe was inserted into the charge piping approximately 14" away from the turbo. As stated earlier I was unable to get the probe any closer, as I was unable to reach it at the time. Even though this was the case the probe was closer to the turbo than it was to the intercooler.

The purpose of this test was to determine if the temperatures inside of the charge piping were higher or lower then the under hood temps. As stated before if the charge piping temps were lower then the under hood temps reflective heat tape would be applied and more readings taken to look for improvements in IAT's.

The results were a little interesting. A total of 7 test were conducted during idle. Temperature changes were noted every time the radiator fan would kick on just like previous tests. An average temperature of 120 degrees was noted with the probe 14" away from the turbo at idle.







After plugging all of the numbers into excel I noticed that at first the probe temps were higher then my IAT's. The probe temps and IAT's eventually leveled out to around the same temperature though. This test tells me that the heat that is generated from the turbo (@ idle) has a large influence on charge piping temperatures even though the turbo is not spinning very much.

My highest temperature recorded after the turbo blanket was installed @ idle was 121 degrees, thats one degree hotter then the temperatures inside the charge piping. Being that my charge piping is made of aluminum I would have reason to believe that radiant heat from the engine bay is playing a role in the high charge piping temps @ idle.

Right now this may seem like a no brainer to wrap the charge piping with the reflective heat tape to combat the radiating heat in the engine bay, but just wait until you see the numbers at a 60 mph roll and WOT.

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

After the idle test I moved on to the 60 mph roll charge piping test. The probe was still in the same spot (approximately 14" from the turbo). I drove approximately 5 miles just like the last test and held the speed to as close to 60 mph as possible.

An immediate reduction in charge piping temp was noted, going from a peak idle temp of 132 degrees to 101 degrees at 60 mph. This showed a total reduction of 31 degrees. A reduction was shown across the board except for my oil temperatures that stayed about the same.



Now if you remember by under hood temps at 60 mph (after turbo blanket) was 59 degrees, this shows that the charge piping is hotter then the under hood temperature by 42 degrees. Now I know that the reflect a gold heat tape is supposed to radiate heat away from whatever it is wrapping, but it would also have some insulating properties about it as well. Now I'm not sure how much heat the charge piping is capable of radiating before the intercooler, but I would bet that it wouldn't radiate the heat enough to lower the temperature by 43 degrees to be lower then the under hood temps.

Conclusion: so far I'm not seeing a reason to wrap the charge piping coming from the turbo to the intercooler, as it will hold more heat in then it's radiating. It would be better to leave it unwrapped as the under hood temperatures are 42 degrees cooler then the charge piping between the turbo and intercooler.

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Next was the same charge piping test, but now at wide open throttle (WOT). I conducted the test in 3rd gear and the probe was still approximately 14" away from the turbo.

As expected the temperatures inside the charge piping rose from the temps taken at 60 mph (101 degrees). As I conducted the test my boost pressures rose to a peak of 12.2 psi, yielding a peak charge piping temperature of 163 degrees. Now this shows an increase of 62 degrees when compared to cruising temps. I did however notice a 5 degree decrease in IAT's during the pull.



Datalog of the pull during the test.



Photo taken of the temperature sensor right after the pull. *NOTE: the picture indicates a temp of 161 degrees. I was unable to snap the photo when it read it's highest temp of 163 degrees as I was driving 80 mph so sorry lol!!



Conclusion: this further backs up my hypothesis from earlier, wrapping the charge piping between the turbo and intercooer with anything will hurt efficiency, performance, IAT's and possible detonation if your already on the edge of your fuels octane rating.

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

The next test conducted were the temps of the charge piping at the throttle body. This test just like the rest was conducted at idle, 60 mph roll and WOT.

Now the first thing that I noticed was the huge reduction in temperature compared to the reading that was taken at the turbo. I was seeing consistent readings of 73 degrees and holding pretty steady. This showed a reduction of 53 degrees when compared to the peak number at the turbo. This test was also effective as it showed how much heat soak effects the IAT's just on the other side of the throttle body from my probe. I was seeing IAT's as high as 131 degrees, even though just on the other side of the throttle body temps are a measly 73 degrees! WOW, I hate you heat soak lol!!









Conclusion: Post turbo blanket (idle) my temperatures behind the radiator, right next to my intercooler pipe that runs to my throttle body was 125 degrees. Now being that the charge piping temperatures are lower then the engine bay temps, I would wrap the charge piping from the intercooler to the throttle body with reflective heat tape to keep that air charge as cold and dense as possible!! WRAP AWAY!!

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Next up was the 60 mph test of the charge piping at the throttle body. During this test charge piping temps dropped even more with a consistent temperature of 64 degrees. Thats a 9 degree reduction when compared to the idle temp. There was also a 41 degree drop in IAT's.





Conclusion: Now remember that my under hood temps at 60 mph (post wrap) were 56 degrees. Now your probably thinking; he just told us in the last post to wrap the intercooler piping between the intercooler and throttle body, but the temperature of the charge piping is higher then the temperature of the engine bay at 60 mph!?

Here is my theory: If we can radiate as much heat as possible with reflective heat tape during idle, this will make your starting charge piping temp lower then if un-wrapped. We saw the temperature drop from 73 degrees at idle to 64 degrees at 60 mph un-wrapped. I feel that if the piping is wrapped it will reduce the charge piping temps even more, making the under hood temperature of 56 degrees irrelevant. Just my theory, don't kill me, will be wrapping the piping from the intercooler to the throttle body shortly!!

stackedhouse

I'm loving the data!!! I agree with your theory on wrapping it post intercooler. I don't see why it wouldn't help to keep the iats lower

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Thanks bro

1998GsRIntegra

Wow, this gets better and better every time I look at it. Keep up the good work

I've been doing some more looking around and some say the tilt doesn't do anything because that area between the back of the hood and the windshield is a dead zone. Others have said it will create an area of low pressure which will help evacuate heat. I'm more inclined to believe it will create an area of low pressure. I say that because I feel the tilt can be loosely compared to a back cut hood vent which is designed to create an area of low pressure to suck out heat. So I've gone from no difference tilted or not to there is reason to believe it should do something. Lol

Arsenal

Fantastic work! I am sure many of us have thought of doing this but balked at the work involved.

Will you, by any chance, be putting the data into one large table / spreadsheet to see the variances all at once?

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

It is definitely something that will be done after all of the data is collected. Being that more testing needs to be done I'm probably going to wait until then. I will then compile everything into one spread sheet to make it easy for everyone to see the results. Thanks everyone for the support. Stay tuned though, next I will be fabricating a cold air intake box and testing how this will help drop my charge piping temps and ultimately my IAT's.

smokin rubber

it is a high pressure area, the windshield creates a wall where the air stacks up

op, thanks for the info

914Racer

DO you have any kind of airdam or undertray on the test car?

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Thanks, keep checking back

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

No I don't, the only thing that it has is what hangs off the factory bumper.