x James Bond x

Hola everyone

Well I am in search of a new race car I have had in the past

1973 Chevy nova 350 (fun in a straight line)
1997 Civic Coupe (b18c1)
1996 EK (turbo SOHC)
1999 Eclipse GSX (stock, hated it, got repoed)
1991 Turbo Mr2 (low 13 second car, Great handling, sold it)
1991 Crx (b16a bolt ons, very very fun in the turns)

Anyway I have had a wide variety of cars and now I’m having Real trouble figuring out what I’m going to do next if I want to go with a FWD Honda again or a RWD car.

Honda/Acura is such a great car to own if you are into performance with all the aftermarket support and such. The mr2 was such a bitch to own, everything was expensive and I can remember many backbreaking nights working on the thing.

What are your thoughts on FWD VS RWD VS AWD?

AWD= under steers a bit to much for my taste, I have only owned the eclipse and that car did not handle for ****, It really felt like I was driving a mini van so my opinion of AWD kind of sucks since it was such a shitty car for the turns (my opinion of course)

FWD= if the car is light, its GREAT, you can basically just throw the car around with little problems and correct very easy, once you start to make some power though the car gets hard to control, to much wheel spin

RWD= Probably the best out of the 3 Setups, but man there is a real shortage of good RWD Imports with good AM support, hard to find a light RWD car these days, besides the miata (sorry to girly for me)

Anyway I would just like to hear some thoughts on this topic from some hard core drivers like me...peace take car.


Also a quick question, EG or 94+ integra? say you got the integra down to a EG's Weight, witch car will have more potential in the turns? I would assume it would be dead even since they have just about the same wheel base and such and most people swap over all the integra parts they can get on the EG...

Mike_C

Stripping each the same amount, the EG will be lighter. If however they are of exact same weight I would lean towards the integra because I BELIEVE it has a lower COG (againt hatchback at least). Looking for a light RWD car? An AE86 is probably the best option.

Edit: On way to work I was thinking and came up with - Nissan 240SX, an old Datsun 240z, 1st gen rx-7. I think you're looking for a more modern car though... get a Lotus Elise.


[Modified by JMU1337, 2:21 PM 7/3/2002]

MrBite

Light RWD race car? Porsche 914. Can be had for REAL cheap too.

Apocalypse

Go one step better and get the 914-6... you'll be kickin some serious ***. I can say that from my own experience there's nothing quite like the feeling of control (or lack thereof) from oversteer. They say it's the fastest way around the track.

Mark sans

I like my car - even at 2760 lbs in luxo-yacht SE trim. Even the s14 240sx can get down to 2400 lbs if you want to prep it. Lower than that and I think you are looking at that ever popular mid-80's econo-box.

tnord

out of those cars you listed, i would get the CRX. it's cheap, plenty of donor cars around, they always have large competitive fields, and as stated good aftermarket support. if you want to be different build an ITS 240sx. cars can be found for 3 grand, pretty good support, not overtly heavy, and most importantly RWD. older (E30?) 325's are also extremely competitive in IT. 944's are another car you'll typically find at the front of the pack. i stay away from rx7's because rotary's are beyond my mechanical knowledge. personally, i'm building a spec miata.

Evan55

properly set up AWD will always outhandle FWD and RWD, the drawback lies in the extra 200lb that an AWD system adds.
This is a moot point anyway, since there is no entry level racing program that allows AWD or AWD turbo cars

Evan

Mike_C

haha you said your car sucks and you're gonna have to sell it for a CRX.


[Modified by JMU1337, 3:42 PM 7/3/2002]

solo-x

i wouldn't say an awd car will ALWAYS out handle fwd or rwd. each car has its advantages and disadvantages. the BEST layout in terms of lightweight, weight distribution and chassis dynamics would be a mid-engine, rwd car.

turboman

I should have my awd car soon.

I'm thinking it has alot to do with HP also.

AWD with monster hp will probably beatup on a fwd or rwd with the same hp.

I have to be real careful in my civic with the turbo. I can get the front over heated real quick. RWD would work a little better I beleave. Even out the work to the tires a bit. (admitetly I don't have much experience with racing RWD)

If your talking low hp cars the awd would be the worst choice. The extra weight would kill you. RWD would still have a slight advantage but not by much over front drive.

But what the hell do I know

DOHC-DX

honestly, the best bet for RWD is the miata. it has a lot of aftermarket support, handles great out of the box, and is relatively light.

i'm thinking my next car (pure race) will be a miata

YodaIsGod

My dream project cars for each drivetrain....

RWD - Miata, Porche 914, Datsun 510
FWD - EG Civic HB, ITR, Golf GTi
AWD - 1988 Mazda 323 GTX, WRX, or Audi 1.8T Quattro

depending on your application, and what YOU want to do.


[Modified by YodaIsGod, 11:26 AM 7/3/2002]


[Modified by YodaIsGod, 12:03 PM 7/3/2002]

solo-x

the awd mazda is a 323 gTx. the gLx is a designation for vw's.

PseudoRealityX

Where is this thing going to be raced? I think thats a major issue here. Certain cars are good autocross cars while others are better suited to IT or another form of road racing. Whats the intended use of the car?

manveer

Doesn't the 914/914-6 have serious reliability issues (yes all race cars do but I'm talking about relatively)?

I've personally made the switch to the Miata...girly or not, it's fast and RWD.

Edit: But then again I've become fanatical about RWD being (inherently) superior to FWD so maybe you shouldn't listen to me


[Modified by manveer, 8:00 PM 7/3/2002]

solo-x

i think another distinction should be made here. despite the awd car being able to put more power to the ground, this doesn't mean it handles better then any of the other cars. how well a car handles takes into account cg, weight distribution, overall weight in relation to tire width, suspension geometry, track, wheel-base, etc. a high-powered awd car will always ACCELERATE out of a corner better then the other layouts, but not necessarily HANDLE better. the car with the lowest cg, widest track, ideal wheelbase (for turning radius, scrub angles, etc. ), widest tire and what-not will handle the best. therefore, taking a fwd car and comparing it to an awd car; if the low powered fwd car can maintain a high enough corner speed to counter the lower corner speed but faster acceleration of the awd car you could theoretically have a low powered fwd car turn a faster lap then the awd car. imo, average speed is more important then all out acceleration.

tnord

actually, i would tend to say that a RWD will womp on an AWD with the same hp (assuming it's at the crank) because of drivetrain losses. AWD cars also tend to plow through corners much like FWD, and nobody likes that. i'm sure there's more arguments for RWD (besides weight advantage), but i'm not in the mood for thinking right now. there's a reason F1, CART, and IRL, cars are all rwd.

TDRacing

F1, CART and IRL may be rear wheel drive, but they are also mid engined. This is a big difference, and probably the fastest of all of them.

wakaru

Yep. Its called "rules".

Tyson

it sure would be interesting how they put a drive shaft to the front wheels on a formula car. can you say "Atomic Wedgie"?

apples and oranges fellas.

x James Bond x

dam Great discussion guys

Well Ill be a bit more Detailed with my choices...

Im looking for something that I can drive fast and hard and still go on a date in... I went and took a WRX for a test drive today, and I was very impressed, not as fast as some cars I have owned but lots of people are getting low 13's high 12's with minimal mods, thats more then fast enough to be fun in the straights and rocket out of the corners.

I really would love to do another mr2 again, I had the most fun in that, great in a straight line and in the turns, but they are to hard to own and to hard to find, Im narrowing it down now to a dc2 (actually I want to find a RS with no sunroof or ABS) or a WRX, Im not strapped for cash but am not rich either....

Anyway thanks alot for the great discussion guys...

Amor Y Paz

Mike_C

Get a WRX if you're not strapped for cash, you can't make a better choice for the money.

fsp31

>>Get a WRX if you're not strapped for cash, you can't make a better choice for the money.<<

Sorry, but I gotta disagree. Assuming stock vehicles... A Miata is much cheaper, and will blow away a WRX on any course that puts a premium on handling. Dollar for dollar, there isn't a better handling package out there. And when you start making modifications, the gap only gets bigger. It's a shame they sort of have that "girl car" image.

Recently, there was a discussion on a popular autocross list about which cars have the best suspension design. The Miata certainly got honorable mention. At a National Tour a few months ago, I had the priveledge to talk to Mr. John Ames (unbeatable in Super Stock) about his driving technique. He said "it's pretty simple. I just pay close attention to the lines the Miata drivers take, then try to duplicate them." High praise not only for the guys competing in Miata's, but for the cars themselves.

Mike_C

I won't deny the best car for the money is a Miata, he said it's too girly though. I too would get one, but it's not practical enough.