raene

Is the CRX steering rack a really slow rack? I had a couple drivers wheel my car around course last Sunday and they unanimously complained that it has really slow steering and requires far more turns than either of theirs to achieve the same effect.

Does anyone who autocrosses a CRX regularly have any input on this? ie switch to a compatible rack, my rack is dying, etc?

Crosser

The CRX does not have a bad ratio steering rack they are not the fastest, but I have been in MUCH worse. If everything is operating properly in your rack, I would suggest purchasing an aftermarket smaller wheel. They do make a big difference in input as well as general feel. I have to admit I hated the fell of the stock CRX wheel.

raene

So they are all generally the same ratio then?

I didn't want to go to aftermarket but if that's all I've got that's where I'll go

XrcR6

I think the main thing your guest drivers were noticing was the complete lack of power or power assist. All the CRX's had manual racks, you will definitely get a work out a slower speeds (parking manuevers, slow/tight auto-x courses, etc.). And that "effort" can easily be mistaken for speed/ratio of the rack.

I personally don't notice even running up to 225's R-compounds on the front, but I guess I'm used to it. I did get a chance to drive a DSP GSR Integra and realized the huge difference in effort. At first it seemed like it turned too "quick" until I adjusted my inputs.


[Modified by XrcR6, 4:44 PM 2/12/2003]

XrcR6

If we're talking 2G's, HF was a slightly quicker ratio than the Si (minor edit: took out the DX since not sure). Honestly tho, the Si ratio isn't bad. I wouldn't call it quick or slow, its appropriate for the car. If you've driven nothing but modern power/power assist then it may be a shock at first, but then you adjust.


[Modified by XrcR6, 2:43 PM 2/13/2003]

raene

You're very likely right. Personally, just driving it on the road, I can make sharp turns at lower speeds without too much wheeling, so yeah.

The HF rack won't bolt up, will it? I can imagine that having a rack with a quicker ratio would make steering effort more difficult, probably making the steering harder.

jeimport

There is a difference between HF and Si racks....the si rack has about 14 inches travel left to right and the hf is around 13-13.5 inches. I would just recomend using a smaller wheel, much easier and would have more effect.

XrcR6

If I recall correctly, it does bolt up. I knew someone who did it and he didn't mention any hassles. Should be 4 bolts where it fixes to the rear x-member and then the steering column interface. I imagine the effort would go up, but it would be very, very minor since the rack is doing the work translating your steering input. Actually, I think that you'd notice more effort increase by using a smaller steering wheel. Its just that route is an easier upgrade usually.

turbohappy

Actually, some of the 2G DXs had power steering, I'm pretty sure. Could be wrong, but I noticed it in the Helms...


[Modified by happycorepuppy, 5:56 AM 2/13/2003]

Aahj

3 point turns with R-compound tires and a smaller wheel is a workout. The rack in the Si is better compared to other vehicles equipped with power steering like the Civic, Integra, etc..

That's weird how they complained about it...the CRX rack seems to have the best steering rack out of all of the cars I have driven. But then again...I'm not car-***** Carman over there

aj

Vracer111

uuuUUU!...cool thread. Would anybody know what is involved in putting a 2nd gen CRX manual steering rack into a 2nd Gen integra? I know a lot of the parts are interchangeable between the two vehicles. So the Si steering rack would be what I'm after for my integra (which should end up weighing around 2,000 lbs when I'm done)? And would the regular Civic Si have a manual rack too?

Vracer111, who would love to find a bolt in solution for his experimental '90 integra but doesn't mind custom installing either.

jsi

Well i dunno if this would help, but to swap the manual rack from 84-87CRX into a G1 Integra requires to swap the cross-member as well, which are structurally identical contrary to popular myth, the only diff being the rack brackets/holes.

So the same maybe possible with the G2 Teg/EF CRX/Civic. Try to get a hold of the cross members from both cars and see if they bolt up. I'm not that familiar with the EF platform, but this is where i would look first.

Vracer111

That would be an easy solution then. Would anyone with a Helms for 88-91 CRX/Civic give what the chassis mount hole location distances are for the front crossmember (the one with the steering rack). If the dimensions match the G2 integra's crossmember then a trip the salvage yard will be in order.

DB2-R81

Hello Vracer111,

I suggest you read this. Why you would want to switch to a slower ratio rack for less then 5 pounds, mounted very low is beyond me.

http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthrea...=steering+rack


[Modified by DB1-R81, 7:18 AM 2/13/2003]

jsi

Hehe, well there ya go, sounds like an even easier swap. I kinda forgot to mention the obvious, that is the first thing that I would try to do is to see how the rack bolts up to the stock DA chassis and go from there. By the looks of it, it should bolt up alright with a little shimming.

Steve91

I've swaped an HF rack into an SI and there is a slight difference. I believe it's 1/4 turn less from lock to lock, maybe a bit more. It's a pretty easy swap, and HF racks don't cost anything.

Vracer111

How many turns lock-to-lock is the HF manual steering rack?

I would like a steering ratio that isn't much different from the 3.5 lock-to-lock of the integra. I really don't care what manual steering rack it is as long as it can mate up with the steering arms and the ratio is close to or better than 3.5 lock-to-lock.

DB2-R81

Hello Vracer111,

Yes, it would be nice if Honda made one but they didn't. Look into the British after market racks, or email Frank Lin.

XrcR6

Hmm, I had a link somewhere and I saw someone mention the same values in the EF forum recently....

HF vs Si
3.9 vs 4.1

Steve91

I don't remember the L to L turns. This was on a 85 SI. I the 85 factory Helms manual it tells you the ratios and there is about a .2 or .3 difference between the SI and HF. In my 91 manual, there is no information given on the rack ratios.

whitney

According to http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/crx/91f.html,

HF/DX: 3.9 turns lock to lock
Si: 4.1 turns lock to lock

Honda probably did this to compensate for the wider tires (thus higher effort) on the Si. 4.0 turns lock to lock on my 325 w/ power steering is way, way too slow. On my Civic, w/o power steering, I wouldn't change to a faster rack, since the effort would get too high w/ good tires.

Also, FYI, Civics with automatic transmission from this era came with power steering standard. It would be interesting to know if that rack is quicker than 3.9

Vracer111

Heck I might as well try to find an HF steering rack and see how the 3.9 ratio is. I can always go to another steering rack if needed. I'm pretty sure I can get the car under 2,000 lbs with roll cage now - I was working on lightening the passenger side door while still keeping it structurally sound last night and it weighs right around 15lbs now, maybe just a little more. Hood weighs a little less. So if the rack is designed for the CRX HF weight I should do fine with it...

jasyatz

Does that make me a victim??

I like the Si/DX racks...I prefer them over the slower feeling rack in the Integra/Civics with power steering..

Sure parking is a pain, but the feel is certainly better..IMO

Yes some 4dr 2G and 3G Civics did have power steering
The later 5G Civics have a slower Manual Steering rack (compared to the 4G cars)..

The HF/DX has the fastest MS racks and shortest lock to lock of all Honda's(that I could find info on)

Leave the rack alone and play with your front toe settings, a little toe out in the front improves turn in 200%..


Jeff
edit [researched more data]



[Modified by jasyatz, 8:10 AM 2/15/2003]

Lo-Buck EF

jeff.
i drove a 6gen si at an autox and the pwr steering felt 1.very numb and 2. slower than my 4gen manual rack.

-spenc

Shu

Another thing that i didn't see mentioned is that the Si rack has a variable ratio. The HF does not. I believe it is slower in the center and faster at extreme angles.