EG6 Love

iTrader: (1)

Hello honda tech, its been a long time since I've been forced to ask a question since I can always find my answers through the wonderful search feature. This time i cant find a specific answer so here it goes and if this post does not belong here feel free to move it.


My setup, fully built golden eagle sleeved 2.0 gsr with GT35R. ~500 whp.

I recently began road racing at gingerman raceway, a 2.5 mile track and have run into what i believe are some cooling issues. After 10 minutes of track time my coolant temps measured in the upper radiator hose will reach 215*. While some say i can expect temps to reach 225-230 i feel this is far to hot and i come off the track at the 215 mark. I was running water wetter in a 70/30 coolant mix in my fluidyn radiator with fan and shroud. Im using a newer 185 thermostat. Radiator cap, radiator fins, water pump are all in good condition.

Most of the more experienced racers say ideally i should be running about 205*

Does anybody have any input on this or suggestions as to how to lower temps?

Thanks, Doug

Runnerdown

Sounds like you need more airflow to the radiator. Intercoolers tend to push air away and divert critical flow paths. I would consider ducting the radiator and block off area where air can bypass. Keep in mind "fluid" much like electricity, and most people.. takes the path of least restriction.

EG6 Love

iTrader: (1)

I cant figure out how to post pictures or I would show how my intercooler blocks most of my radiator. In addition to building shrouds, would a front splitter that extends past the radiator also be beneficial or should i just focus on diverting air from the front bumper straight into the radiator?

EG6 Love

iTrader: (1)

Also is a fan shroud restrictive while at high speeds? I see the benefits while in city but i rarely drive in traffic.

rice_classic

Once that air enters through the bumper, you need to shroud in such a way that 100% of it (as an ideal) flow through it. Right now, I bet you have a good amount of air flowing around it, instead of through it, especially if there's a gap between your intercooler and your radiator as that gap will create a high pressure zone of turbulence further decreasing airflow through the radiator.

Shroud baby, shroud!

N2RCN4FUN1

what rpm are you running and are your headers coated or wrapped?

43!

iTrader: (3)

electric water pump

N2RCN4FUN1

yep 43 ... i just put my electric pump in this weekend, hope to run it this weekend and solve my problem. Do you run one?

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

You say fluidyne rad but what size?

EG6 Love

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the replies. I do not run an electronic water pump, I'm not sure I see the advantage over a normal functioning belt drive style.

My turbo mnifold and downpipe are heavily wrapped and sealed but the downpipe is only 1/4" from the radiator fan shroud.

I usually run in the 4500-6500rpm range but with rev to 8500 on the straights.

I am only running a half radiator, there is definitely not enough room for a full radiator with a top mount turbo manifold and dual 38mm wastegates.

EG6 Love

iTrader: (1)

This reaffirms what I suspected was the most likely culprit.

joel n

Should I be worried that nobody said 215 is fine? We run 220 on average and 230 on hot days. Stock 96 ITR motor. Never had a problem with it yet.

I was told nascar guys run 250 plus temps and don't worries unless it starts to relieve pressure as that's when the air bubbles can damage the motor.

EG6 Love

iTrader: (1)

Also still looking for some solid info on safe vs unsafe operating temps. My goal is to get temps down to 205 if possible, regardless of how many laps i run.

dbang003

I ducted, wrapped, and added an oil cooler to my turbo setup. also cut a hole in my hood, but never got around to making it function better by elevating the leading edge of the opening. my coolant temps stayed around 195-200 in the upper hose during 20 minute track sessions with ambient air temps around 60-65. think I had a 170 t-stat in it. not sure if 215 is too high, but the lower the better. oil temps started getting up to 245-250. wrapping and ducting is the way to go.

https://honda-tech.com/road-racing-a...3067454/page3/

dbang003

some more pics with bumper on/off here

https://honda-tech.com/road-racing-a...itter-3175997/

rice_classic

I'm pretty sure the NASCAR cooling systems run pressures greater than we do.. We usually run caps that are limited to 13-18psi. I suspect those NASCAR engines run in the neighborhood of 25 psi or so.

The problem with operating close to the boiling limit (even if you're below it) is the phenomenon of localized boiling around the exhaust valves especially in cars running only Water+ww (no glycol). That localized boiling creates localized cavitation that can warp a head among other things. Running 220F+ water temps without any glycol in my system may be cause for concern.

liam821

I have the same problem. I'm currently running a half radiator, oil cooler, powersteeing cooler, and finally a big FMIC in front. I'm going to cut the radiator support and bumper support out and move everything forward so I can fit a larger radiator.

My turbo EG runs about the same. Oil temps was around 250 degrees last time I was up at Big Willow but it was over 100 degrees outside that day. I haven't cut a big hole in my hood yet...

43!

iTrader: (3)

I did, on my all motor b20. It would run too cold, could never get it up to temp. I ran that Mizara setup, triple core half size radiator. But on a boosted car that sees track time, I would guess its the ticket. Good luck

liam821

I would imagine since it's electric you could vary the speed of the pump, increasing or decreasing the flow to the radiator. What electric pump setup did you run?

N2RCN4FUN1

This is what I put in my all motor b18, will run it this weekend and see how it does. https://www.meziere.com/ps-1332-1268-wpk50022.aspx

43!

iTrader: (3)

Yes, that one I knew I spelled it wrong. I don't know if you can slow it down and not burn it out. I had heard people adding switches to turn it off/on. For my setup, wasn't needed.

liam821

You could probably trigger it off the radiator fan switch maybe?

43!

iTrader: (3)

But then you have zero coolant flow when its not spinning. That can't be good either

theYBLEGAL

I run gingerman only for WMHM, but I also daily my car. Built and tuned by me.

I can do a full session and be 200-205.

B16 11:1 cast pistons, forged rods, water/meth. But I only do 5psi aka maybe 210whp lapping. AFRs richer at 11.5:1. 2 years ago I was doing 10psi on stock block, no heat issues. Ramhorn mani, fmic, half rad aluminum. OEM Honda coolant.

Add some fuel, or add water/meth, or turn down the power. Most likely solutions.

Or increase cooling potential. A buddy with a 2000 Civic Coupe @400whp has a vented hood that seems to help his.

rice_classic

I don't see how an electric water pump is the "right" solution here.

The OEM water pump moves lots of volume. The cooling problem is a function of cooling system capacity to dispel heat, flowing fluid more rapidly through a system that's inadequate of removing heat does not an efficient cooling system make. You need the pressure via a restriction (thermostat) and you need the fluid to spend enough time in the radiator to exchange its heat with the passing air. Reduce your restriction (like removing the t-stat) and you lose your pressure, lowering your boiling point and increasing flow rate decreases the coolant's time in the radiator to dispel heat before it travels through the engine again to pick up more.

You need more air flow removing heat from the radiator (shrouding) and most likely more radiator (full size or much thicker or aluminum or all three).

Finally, like was mentioned above check your AFRs. If you're running closer to the lean side, try running a fatter AFR which will cool things down or pull a bit of timing.