ilovejdm

I have a 93 Del Sol with a pretty good suspension setup and I'm wanting to get into Autocross. I have a bunch of b series parts and decided to get either b18c or b16a, depends on if I decide the b18 is worth the extra cash. But before I order either, I wanted to know if I would be better off ordering an LSD tranny or non-LSD tranny? Which one is better for autocross? Thanks.

bad-monkey

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ilovejdm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a 93 Del Sol with a pretty good suspension setup and I'm wanting to get into Autocross. I have a bunch of b series parts and decided to get either b18c or b16a, depends on if I decide the b18 is worth the extra cash. But before I order either, I wanted to know if I would be better off ordering an LSD tranny or non-LSD tranny? Which one is better for autocross? Thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I suggest you stop modding the car until you've driven a few a/x's and get an idea of what it's really about.

Decide after that whether you want to win or just go out there and have fun--both are perfectly acceptable--because oftentimes you'll mod yourself right into some pretty unwinnable classes w/ motor swaps, etc.

Fuuma0083

LSD Tranny is the best but... from what your saying your going to be in SM class which isn't the best place to start autoxing in.

ilovejdm

alright, thanks for the info, I'll try to make it to a few and compete before this year is over, see if I'm going to want to get into it very much

GPNY

I recently started autocrossing with a turbo civic... That means racing in SM class against modded lancers and Sti... Fun YES!!!, will I will ANYTHING??? NOPE

If you want to be competitive, try to stay in a stock class, and mod to the rules... In autocross it's the driver, not the car, so starting in a lower class will allow you to learn.

vietnameeh

R comps are better haha

White98LS

*taking it as a given that you know are are okay with starting in Mod classes*

An LSD is said to give you a good 0.5-1.0 sec. advantage for FWD on a given auto-x course. After racing for 3 years non-LSD and about 17-18 times in this past year with, I would say that's a solid number, if not even a little understated. You drive the course completely differently and especially if you have a decent amount of power, it makes you much quicker. It's also a lot more fun to drive without having peg-leg wheelspin every time you want to accelerate....

xerox445

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by White98LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">*taking it as a given that you know are are okay with starting in Mod classes*

An LSD is said to give you a good 0.5-1.0 sec. advantage for FWD on a given auto-x course. After racing for 3 years non-LSD and about 17-18 times in this past year with, I would say that's a solid number, if not even a little understated. You drive the course completely differently and especially if you have a decent amount of power, it makes you much quicker. It's also a lot more fun to drive without having peg-leg wheelspin every time you want to accelerate....</TD></TR></TABLE>

IMHO, Theres no way in hell your going to become 1 sec faster on a auto-x course with a LSD....its just not going to happen. At least around me, the courses are so technical and tight that power doesn't have much to do with anyhting, its keeping your momentum...

If your serious about auto-x, invest in r-comps, the car will drive so completly differently, you will have to relearn its limits. THEN, you should think about getting an LSD...

bad-monkey

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xerox445 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IMHO, Theres no way in hell your going to become 1 sec faster on a auto-x course with a LSD....its just not going to happen. At least around me, the courses are so technical and tight that power doesn't have much to do with anyhting, its keeping your momentum...

If your serious about auto-x, invest in r-comps, the car will drive so completly differently, you will have to relearn its limits. THEN, you should think about getting an LSD...</TD></TR></TABLE>

actually, if you're serious about ax, you're going to spend a season or two on the shittiest tires you can find. the learning curve is much steeper when you've got crappy AS tires that don't hide your mistakes like r-comps.

LSD's are a worthwhile mod, less effective, than say r-comps--but all of it is irrelevant if you aren't a good a/x driver.

vietnameeh

^^ my hero lol

drkarrow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fuuma0083 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LSD Tranny is the best but... from what your saying your going to be in SM class which isn't the best place to start autoxing in.</TD></TR></TABLE>

SM2 actualy with the del sol. Good luck running against Corvettes Porches, or any other RWD car with an insane amount of hp.

So since you're not going to be racing to win, do whatever the hell you want and have fun.

White98LS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xerox445 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

IMHO, Theres no way in hell your going to become 1 sec faster on a auto-x course with a LSD....its just not going to happen. At least around me, the courses are so technical and tight that power doesn't have much to do with anyhting, its keeping your momentum...

If your serious about auto-x, invest in r-comps, the car will drive so completly differently, you will have to relearn its limits. THEN, you should think about getting an LSD...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I can drive completely differently with the LSD. Instead of spinning my inside wheel and understeering/not accelerating much literally every time I tried to accelerate and wasn't pointed exactly straight with the car settled, the LSD now pulls me through the corner at any speed in 2nd gear. Some corners I can get on the power well before the exit, which can make a huge difference anywhere, especially if there's a meaningful straight afterwards.

Of course my driving could have and probably did improve somewhat, but I raced for 3 years non-LSD and wasn't winning my class. Got the LSD and after a couple races of re-learning how to drive with it, won 12 races in a row. I don't doubt a full second advantage on some (not all) courses. Also keep in mind that here in Seattle about a third of our events are in the wet.

At any rate, I agree that if you want to get more serious in auto-x, there's no other choice but to get some race tires. Whole different world there.

jond

I've never cared about classes. I just go for raw time. It's more fun that way IMO.

As far as modifying your car, I agree with everyone else, drive it stock and learn how to drive. Theres nothing more sad then someone with a EVO or STi who's slower then a stock saturn.

If you're smooth, LSD becomes a little less of an issue anyway.

andrewk

woot first post haha,

when we auto-x we go to have alot of fun we're not REAL serious about it but we aren't crappy either.

we all join the same class and jsut race eachother.

vietnameeh

^^^ thats what all the slow drivers say haha jk

ewaugh

Don't buy race tires until you have some experiance under your seat. You'll learn faster, even on azenis, or any other sticky street tire, than you will on a race tire. Besides that they're expensive and you probably woudln't be using them to thier potential anyway so it could be a big waste anyway.

RKSskier

"Theres no way in hell your going to become 1 sec faster on a auto-x course with a LSD....its just not going to happen. At least around me, the courses are so technical and tight that power doesn't have much to do with anyhting, its keeping your momentum..."


the tighter and slower a course is, the more it will benifit a fwd to have an lsd. For instance if you are taking an arcing onramp turn at 60+ mph even if you are turning hard enough for the tires to loose some grip, and start getting tire noise and change the slip angle, it is going to be a minimal change in slip angle and most likely a horizontal movement of the tires sliding. Now if you are taking a hair pin at 10 mph in the same fwd with same suspension setup, it would be much easier to have a much more severe change in slip angle, and then in that case an lsd would prove to be more benificial. the speed difference of the drive tires spinning going 60 or 10 mph are so different that the car really will hurt more on those tight turns where it has less momentum available to use to help turn and rotate the car as desired. Its not too hard to help a fwd car rotate through a turn at higher speeds, but at slower speeds you just have less momentum to work with and therefore making changes to weight transfer of the car will not yeild the same results.

Which is why my adequately setup suspension on my fwd civic can rip through a mountain pass where the turns are 40+ mph, but on the tight autocross turn that is 10-15 mph, the car just wont rotate the same, and coming out of those turns without the desired rotation can result in more wheel spin or even a higher slip angle once a small amount of wheelspin reduces traction and causes understeer (or a much worse slip angle)

i am no car expert or expert driver, but i have a pretty good understanding of physics, and some driving time under my belt. correct me if I am wrong but I think most that stuff is pretty true

xerox445

"The driver that keeps their wheels the straightest will win"

ludiferino

I'd love an LSD and other goodies to bump me up to STX, but I'm happy where I'm at.

For the beginner, try to drive with clubs that either have a street tire class, or enter into a ST* class. Street tires do not hide mistakes, they slip, they slide, and they howl; my azenis sound like a dying cat when driving hard.

Also, it's sad to see people with one mod that puts them into a class where they the car is uncompetitive; you know no matter how hard they try, they cannot win.

edit: one wheel drive sucks

Niles

Don't forget to ask for instructors/experienced drivers to ride along with you, and ride along with others if you get the chance. You can learn a whole lot from people that way

RPM_69

Yes, an LSD helps. But you need to answer a lot of other questions before worrying about an LSD;

1. Do you want to spend time and $ in AutoX? Just go drive a season with the car you have. You may be delighted and want to change nothing.

2. Do you want a fast street car or to be competative in AutoX? You likely can't have both. It is easier and cheaper to compete in slower stock classes. These classes are designed to group similar cars into a competative class. Once you engine swap you are running in SM2. A catch-all class that includes heavily modified vettes, vipers, Gen3 RX-7s, etc. Could a swapped Del Sol compete? Sure, after a swap, LSD, Turbo, Lower Final Drive, Coil overs, Big brake kit, and about $10K in other investments - it won't be a SC'ed viper, but you could be competative. If you really want a fast street car, mod till your wallet is empty, but don't expect to win unless that's a REALLY big wallet.

3. Is an LSD the best investment? I think good tires, brake pads, and car control clinics will drop a noobs time much better than an LSD.

I did the same thing when I started motorsports. I worried about how fast my car was. It is much more about learning performance driving and gaining experience. I had a 360hp E46 M3, and I now have a CRX. I drive faster now and it costs me a lot less to do so.

autoxtegfoo

this is very imformative.

My vote: forget about the LSD. Use that money and buy a few driving books and entry fees to several autox.