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rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
so this all started due to my 2nd gear popping out, which people said was because of this particular bearing "walking" or coming out.
figured if im going to rebuild this tranny, might as well replace the clutch/flywheel too.. competition oem clutch fidanza flywheel rebuild kit from Synchrotech. having never gone inside a transmission before.. i feel it has been a lot easier than expected, im using a service manual as my guide.. and calling a buddy too.. but honestly looking at the gears and trying to figure everything out, has been a little nerve racking... so here goes.. http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2958141_n.jpg http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3497088_n.jpg i held this ends apart with some flat heads, then had roomie tap the casing with a rubber mallet, then the bearings dropped right out. http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7878076_n.jpg http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5436553_n.jpg http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3625631_n.jpg http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7105404_n.jpg http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5561053_n.jpg http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4525960_n.jpg dirty magnet, MUST CLEAN this whenever opening the tranny. http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2200173_n.jpg http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6466058_n.jpg rebuild kit from Synchrotech!! http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7563995_n.jpg reverse selector removed.. think thats what it was called. http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3635733_n.jpg main & counter shaft http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...30_12578_n.jpg hows the best way to remove these 2 bearings on the left???? i dont have a bearing puller. is there a neat trick to it or something???? http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6992602_n.jpg THE CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM, just like the guys said. :thumbup: you can see the bearing is scratched up on the side there.... http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7812636_n.jpg http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5955896_n.jpg http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3279408_n.jpg http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3648956_n.jpg http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4658116_n.jpg http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1844827_n.jpg http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._8102838_n.jpg http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7345496_n.jpg http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6415901_n.jpg http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...1_868681_n.jpg ok.. so for now im still trying to figure out how to remove those 2 bearings without buying the tool... any tips guys?? |
Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
rent one?
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Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
You can do the ISB easy enough, use a fairly small prybar, stick it through from the engine side of the bell housing and hit the handle from the backside to drive out the bearing, Move the pry bar around after each hit or two so you don't drive the bearing out all crooked. The other one, you can try setting the countershaft back in it and pull the top side ways and while holding it that way pull up, it may come out.
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Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
OP, what ever fluid you are using in the tranny, stop using it!!!!
Switch to 10w30 motor oil. The blackening is a bad sign of wrong fluid. Also strip both shafts down and flush them out as there is debris in there. Don't forget to stake the CSB in place so it doesn't walk out again. |
Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
94eg8, thats exactly how i got them out.. lol i just had to go stare at them for a while and i figured it out.. they werent in there that hard.
mista bone, i have actually been using penzoil 10w30 synthetic... so i dont know why it was that dark.. but there was a lot of shavings and debris in there.. but anyways, i picked up some honda MTF. some more pix: cleaned magnet http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1193095_n.jpg 1st bearing out.. http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3544290_n.jpg both out now.. http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6730778_n.jpg http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...30_38095_n.jpg http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3127211_n.jpg http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._8372754_n.jpg http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1071253_n.jpg new bearing in.. http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...7_765742_n.jpg harbor freight http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2070642_n.jpg staked. http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2140942_n.jpg http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2263430_n.jpg http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2678515_n.jpg now i have the main shaft done, with the new synchros and bearings on it.. and all i have left is this counter shaft... but having a hard time getting this lock nut off.... |
Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
got the counter shaft apart.... home made vice.. hahahha
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._8119651_n.jpg http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4887629_n.jpg why are these synchros different?? old one on left / new one on right http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2661410_n.jpg http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5750616_n.jpg http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5853053_n.jpg |
Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
wat
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Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
while 1-2 synchros are interchangeable, Honda decided to leave 6 teeth off the second gear OEM synchro.
That extra notch, looks like a syncho from Aceomatic/Recon that I dealt with a decade ago. |
Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
ok.. yeah its kinda weird that it would change like that... Dave said it was ok, so tonight i will finish putting that tranny back together...
i have to spend all day at work.. bummer. |
Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
how about a shot of the 2nd gear synchro sleeve?
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Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
Btw, make sure you lube up the gear cone and synchro with some oil or MTF when you're putting this together.
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Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
bear with me or correct me if my terminology is wrong, please.
im not sure which gears they were, but these are the larger synchros on the counter shaft. (i think thats right) Bense, those ones that i pictured, each had an identical twin. the smaller synchros all matched up perfectly. old synchros still on. http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1971460_n.jpg http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7521531_n.jpg http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3374029_n.jpg old synchro on, / new synchro off http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7278559_n.jpg old / new http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._8330515_n.jpg http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5411476_n.jpg new synchros on. http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6500197_n.jpg http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2280214_n.jpg now heres where i got irritated, before i disassembled it. the gear selector moved back and forth over the synchros just fine. i took off the old ones and put on the new ones. the gear selector moved back and forth just fine again. sooo, then i took them off one by one cleaning / lubing them and making sure to put them back the same way they came off.. but once i had it all lubed and put back together, the gear selector will not move back and forth over the synchros. ??? whats going on?? is there something that i AM NOT supposed to lube?? |
Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
Did you try turning the synchro slightly with your finger? Remember when the gears aren't moving chances are everything isn't lined up. This is also why you'll sometimes have difficulty getting into first from a dead stop. Btw what you're calling a gear selector is a sleeve/slider depending on who you talk to.
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Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
yeah, i was moving it all around quite a bit thinking it might catch.. maybe ill just take them off and try again..
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Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
ok.. i figured it out.. its the small spring ring on the synchros. the gear selector has to slide hard enough over it and catch for it to go all the way to whichever side... and the new ones are obviously stronger than the old ones. :)
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Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
ok now i have everything put back together and the casing on with just 4 bolts.
i still cannot get this to go into 1st or 2nd. 345R all work fine. any ideas?? i've compared this with my service manual multiple times and everything seems to be on as it should be. the only thing i can think of is that the slider is not sliding over the spring rings on the synchros, but i cant figure out why..? heres how it looked before i put the casing on. http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6114406_n.jpg http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4604495_n.jpg http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2640650_n.jpg http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2736598_n.jpg http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1198840_n.jpg http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5063249_n.jpg http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6130843_n.jpg |
Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
In the last picture it looks like the forks are lined up for the neutral position at the shaft pin..but the 5th is selected on the shaft. Take a pic of the shift change if you you can.
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Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
ok, getting some pix.
i didnt have the shift fork installed on the other side.. but the problem still remains that the sleeve on 1 & 2 is not sliding, it seems to be stuck between the rings on the synchros |
Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2441061_n.jpg
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1903379_n.jpg http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5690215_n.jpg http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3414859_n.jpg http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1157938_n.jpg http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1364298_n.jpg http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5877241_n.jpg http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6235903_n.jpg http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4799025_n.jpg http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1054990_n.jpg http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1054990_n.jpg http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5824016_n.jpg http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5979555_n.jpg http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6553916_n.jpg http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2617230_n.jpg http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5516902_n.jpg i have come to the conclusion that i have put this thing back together properly & that the new parts are just making it tougher than normal.... this thing will be on its tires tomorrow. |
Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
It looks like you may have clocked the 1-2 sleeve in the wrong position but it is hard to tell from the picture. There are three sets of two sleeve teeth (6 total) that are longer than the others. These should go in the deeper hub grooves not in the opening for the synchro blocking section. The deeper grooves are located half way between each opening. I'm not sure if this is what is going on but it is definately worth rechecking.
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1054990_n.jpg |
Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
yeah, if you see where i put the sharpie mark, that is between those 2 bigger teeth. and those i did line up with the opening.
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Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
You will need to reposition the sleeve to the correct spot and it will be fine ;)
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Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
Crap.... I see it now, thank you so much!!!!!
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Re: rebuilding S40. d16y8 transmission
here you can see those deeper grooves.. cant believe i missed that... i actually went back and saw the pic in the service manual where it says to line those up. hahaha :hammer:
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2014490_n.jpg http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4981728_n.jpg http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7240948_n.jpg putting the new snap ring in... used one of the old bearings to drive it all the way down. http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1757361_n.jpg http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2861899_n.jpg http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1221124_n.jpg http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4843488_n.jpg http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5463917_n.jpg http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3521616_n.jpg http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4536319_n.jpg http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1970390_n.jpg http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6043002_n.jpg http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1547854_n.jpg new parts.. http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6998195_n.jpg http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7251398_n.jpg http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3031574_n.jpg new clutch would not fit over alignment pins on the flywheel so i had to dremel them out some... :thumbdown: http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7047866_n.jpg http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6307244_n.jpg http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6308221_n.jpg then it fit like a glove. :thumbup: http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3024757_n.jpg my flywheel lock. http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4337401_n.jpg http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4371150_n.jpg http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7520293_n.jpg http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...017_8568_n.jpg http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6671127_n.jpg http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4189241_n.jpg http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...1_669273_n.jpg and its done. thanks for your help guys. (shout out to dave @synchrotech for the kit and last minute help!!) the clutch is super soft / easy, and the tranny feels great, shifter is held in tight in each gear and it shifts smooth as butter, feels amazing. :) |
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