Go Back   Honda-Tech > Honda and Acura Technical Forums > Paint and Body
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search


Welcome to Honda-Tech!
Welcome to Honda-Tech.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Honda-Tech community today!


Reply
 
 
 
submit to reddit
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-04-2009, 04:48 PM   #1
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NORCAL Salinas Valley to Monterey Bay Area 831 CA
Posts: 207
iTrader Rating: (0)
Icon2 What is "self-etching primer"?

I have also heard this be called etching primer, but i believe its all the same thing? What exactly is it used for? is it ok to use it to temporarily cover up body filler?
dvs94Teg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2009, 05:45 PM   #2
Honda-Tech Member
 
lilshady6796's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Athens, Pa, Bradford
Posts: 308
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

what it is, is it lays on think and u can sand out the scratches from other coats or bondo filler ****, it makes a smooth not rough lookin finish on ur paint job
lilshady6796 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2009, 05:51 PM   #3
Honda-Tech Member
 
IMPATIENT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: southside
Posts: 800
iTrader Rating: (1)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

real etch primer is for use on BARE metal only. its very thin, it has no waterproofing properties. do not use it on body filler. use urethane or epoxy primer for covering up bodyfiller.
IMPATIENT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2009, 05:52 PM   #4
Honda-Tech Member
 
IMPATIENT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: southside
Posts: 800
iTrader Rating: (1)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilshady6796 View Post
what it is, is it lays on think and u can sand out the scratches from other coats or bondo filler ****, it makes a smooth not rough lookin finish on ur paint job

negative.
IMPATIENT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2009, 06:52 PM   #5
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NORCAL Salinas Valley to Monterey Bay Area 831 CA
Posts: 207
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

ok so what is its purpose?
dvs94Teg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2009, 07:00 PM   #6
Honda-Tech Member
 
Orangegsx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ND, USA
Posts: 224
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

in order... metal, etching, sanding primer, sealer, base coat, clear coat.

Self-etching primer is composed of an acid and zinc. The acid, usually phosphoric acid, forces the zinc down into the top couple of molecules of the steel. Chemically impregnating the steel like this cannot reverse the rust but it can stop in from getting worse.

In a spray can if it says "self etching primer". It is most likely filler primer with acid and zinc added. BTW I wouldn't recommend priming with a can because the primer does not atomize as much as it should and it will not hold 100%.
__________________
Honda-Tech for a living
300zx TT/90 Civic SI/couple Ruckus'/RC51/Pilot/CB160/CRV/CRF100f/KX65/RM60/KLX110
Orangegsx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2009, 01:19 AM   #7
Honda-Tech Member
 
gorillafart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: long beach, ca, USA
Posts: 1,425
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

let me just tell u wat its for... i wont try to wow you with big words...

its for adhesion... and its for metal protection... u only spray it where theres metal showing (whether it be a small spot, or your whole car)... and u spray it in a transparent coat... its not meant to go over any other paint/primer/fillers....

after you spray etching primer.. then u spray regular highbuild primer... or sealer and basecoat.

simple.
gorillafart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2009, 05:31 AM   #8
Honda-Tech Member
 
IMPATIENT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: southside
Posts: 800
iTrader Rating: (1)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangegsx View Post
in order... metal, etching, sanding primer, sealer, base coat, clear coat.

Self-etching primer is composed of an acid and zinc. The acid, usually phosphoric acid, forces the zinc down into the top couple of molecules of the steel. Chemically impregnating the steel like this cannot reverse the rust but it can stop in from getting worse.
.

haha, you totally googled that. thats alot of specific words. hah

but i totally agree with ya, just about any primer out of an aerosol can sucks bigtime. even u-pol, or dupont 1k stuff, use the real stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gorillafart View Post
let me just tell u wat its for... i wont try to wow you with big words...

its for adhesion... and its for metal protection... u only spray it where theres metal showing (whether it be a small spot, or your whole car)... and u spray it in a transparent coat... its not meant to go over any other paint/primer/fillers....

after you spray etching primer.. then u spray regular highbuild primer... or sealer and basecoat.

simple.
exactly. i like to use some ospho and leave it wet than spray me etch primer, just for a little added protetion against any little invisible surface rust that had occured in the period beetween sanding and priming.
IMPATIENT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2009, 05:19 PM   #9
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NORCAL Salinas Valley to Monterey Bay Area 831 CA
Posts: 207
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

good info. Reason why i asked was because i didnt see Etching Primer listed in the "Everything You Need To Know About Bodywork" thread. lol. I guess thats what we are all here for.
dvs94Teg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2009, 05:52 PM   #10
Honda-Tech Member
 
itslogz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,202
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to itslogz
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

good info impatient.

Heres a question since this question was answered, when someone refers to "sealer" what exactly are they referring to? Is that just another word for epoxy or urethane primer?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LEM1 View Post
I would drown puppies for 6 figures
itslogz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2009, 06:47 PM   #11
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NORCAL Salinas Valley to Monterey Bay Area 831 CA
Posts: 207
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by itslogz View Post
good info impatient.

Heres a question since this question was answered, when someone refers to "sealer" what exactly are they referring to? Is that just another word for epoxy or urethane primer?
Id like to know about this as well since this would be my first time doing bodywork on my own.
dvs94Teg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2009, 05:45 AM   #12
Honda-Tech Member
 
IMPATIENT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: southside
Posts: 800
iTrader Rating: (1)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

Sealer is basically thinned out reduced primer, although they have different part numbers.sealer is just thinner. Sealer is used as the initial coat of material before laying basecoat. Sealers can be urethane, epoxy or lacquer( please god stay away from lacquer sealer, its cheap,but its crap and takes months to totally cure which can cause problems in the basecoat), i only use 2k urethane primer or sealer. Sealers main purpose to "seal in primer" since primer can sometimes "bleed through" and to create a uniform color surface before laying basecoat. Like if your spraying a car with new fenders and a hood and a door that are black, but the car is white. You dont want to spray basecoat over a black panel, and then over the old paint cause each panel will take a different amount of basecoat to cover since the underlying parts are different colors, that can create different shades of color and than your brand new paint job wont match. Sealer also is good, but not intended for, filling tiny little holes in bodywork. Granted you dont want to be laying sealer on heavy, but it can be used to fill tiny pinholes before laying basecoat. BUT OF COURSE thats not its purpose. Its also great making the panel flat since sometimes a feather out can create a line, and if basecoat is sprayed on it can appear and create an image. Sealer should be the first thing you use on your car when spraying it. ESPECIALLY if your changing colors. it will help the old colors from bleeding through, it will let you use less material to cover correctly. it will help in correcting tiny imperfections. you really only need 1 good coat of sealer, dont want much more then that. You also need to stick with the correct value shade of sealer, you dont want to get a dark grey sealer and then spray white over it. each basecoat has a reccomended sealer to use to create maximum coverage. sealers come in a bunch of different colors, and if needed you can tint the sealer to be closer to your needs.

theres different times when sealer should be used, on all over paint jobs i always use sealer, if your doing some repair work and are blending than you only want to use sealer on the panel that had repair or that was replaced, you dont want to use sealer on the panel that your blending into. sealer is always in my arsenal, it just makes for a better paint job and is just another tool to help your car come out better.

- adhesion promotor if needed
-sealer
-basecoat, than if you have a midcoat
-clear.

example.

i sealed this car with a Medium grey sealer.(black has no problem covering most color sealers, but i used a medium grey since its nearest the silver, and the silver can cover very easily)then layed the silver basecoat.

Click the image to open in full size.


Click the image to open in full size.

than taped off and layed the silver

Click the image to open in full size.

than clear.

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by IMPATIENT; 06-06-2009 at 06:02 AM.
IMPATIENT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2009, 01:12 PM   #13
Honda-Tech Member
 
gorillafart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: long beach, ca, USA
Posts: 1,425
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

or you can always buy a high build primer... (basically a primer that lays really thick) that is something you can use to build low areas be4 you spray sealer and bascoats...

depending on the type of paintjob... i'll cover any areas of metal with self etching... then i'll primer over the whole car with color build/high build primers... i'll block it to make sure theres no low areas... and repeat the color build process if necessary...(spray, let dry, sand etc) then finally i'll go to a sealer. and straight into base n clear

very tedious... u dont want a wavy paint job!
gorillafart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2009, 09:29 PM   #14
Honda-Tech Member
 
itslogz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,202
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to itslogz
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

Thank you impatient for that post, dead on what I was wanting to know.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2LEM1 View Post
I would drown puppies for 6 figures
itslogz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 06:14 AM   #15
Honda-Tech Member
 
IMPATIENT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: southside
Posts: 800
iTrader Rating: (1)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

no problem.
IMPATIENT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 04:25 PM   #16
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NORCAL Salinas Valley to Monterey Bay Area 831 CA
Posts: 207
iTrader Rating: (0)
Icon2 Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMPATIENT View Post
- adhesion promotor if needed
-sealer
-basecoat, than if you have a midcoat
-clear.
so bodywork -> primer-> sealer? wetsand the primer before shooting sealer? < If so, would 400 grit be ok to wetsand the primer?
dvs94Teg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 07:42 AM   #17
Honda-Tech Member
 
IMPATIENT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: southside
Posts: 800
iTrader Rating: (1)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvs94Teg View Post
so bodywork -> primer-> sealer? wetsand the primer before shooting sealer? < If so, would 400 grit be ok to wetsand the primer?

thats the correct order, if there is any bodywork, you need to block it first. I always block with 320 just to make it easier, than i use a soft pad d/a with 500, than finish with 600 and 800. you can finish with 600 but i just like to go one step further and finish with 800 depending on the color ill be spraying, i dont wetsand a terrible amount cause its not really needed when finishing with a soft pad d/a, anything above 600 is good to final prep with it.but if you dont have a soft pad d/a to go over everything with than wetsanding with a block is good. You dont want to use a hard pad d/a to finish prepping with cause that pretty much will negate your blocking your bodywork. light pressure with your block when wetsanding is good if you dont have a soft pad, once you get the car in the booth cleaned and ready to go, sealer goes down first before basecoat.
IMPATIENT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 03:02 PM   #18
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NORCAL Salinas Valley to Monterey Bay Area 831 CA
Posts: 207
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMPATIENT View Post
thats the correct order, if there is any bodywork, you need to block it first. I always block with 320 just to make it easier, than i use a soft pad d/a with 500, than finish with 600 and 800. you can finish with 600 but i just like to go one step further and finish with 800 depending on the color ill be spraying, i dont wetsand a terrible amount cause its not really needed when finishing with a soft pad d/a, anything above 600 is good to final prep with it.but if you dont have a soft pad d/a to go over everything with than wetsanding with a block is good. You dont want to use a hard pad d/a to finish prepping with cause that pretty much will negate your blocking your bodywork. light pressure with your block when wetsanding is good if you dont have a soft pad, once you get the car in the booth cleaned and ready to go, sealer goes down first before basecoat.
Should I be adding filler as I step up to finer sandpaper? Or should I work the same layer of filler using the grits listed removing the bigger scratches with finer grits? What is the best point of time to start feathering out the filler work and with what grit should feathering be done? Also, what would you recommend for me since I plan on driving this car daily and dont have the everyday convinience of a air compressor or spraying equipment?: is there any kind of spraycan primer that i can temporarily use to cover up the bodywork? I dont want the filler to soak up rain or mist ( can unprotected filler crack due to absorbed water?) I deeply appreciate your help. I just want to be sure of what the proper steps are before I get going on my car.
dvs94Teg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 06:15 PM   #19
Honda-Tech Member
 
IMPATIENT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: southside
Posts: 800
iTrader Rating: (1)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvs94Teg View Post
Should I be adding filler as I step up to finer sandpaper? Or should I work the same layer of filler using the grits listed removing the bigger scratches with finer grits? What is the best point of time to start feathering out the filler work and with what grit should feathering be done? Also, what would you recommend for me since I plan on driving this car daily and dont have the everyday convinience of a air compressor or spraying equipment?: is there any kind of spraycan primer that i can temporarily use to cover up the bodywork? I dont want the filler to soak up rain or mist ( can unprotected filler crack due to absorbed water?) I deeply appreciate your help. I just want to be sure of what the proper steps are before I get going on my car.
no adding filler once you start the prep process unless of course it needs to be done, once you spray primer, the only reason you should add more filler is if the bodywork feels wrong after blocking down the primer, than of course you need to primer again if you add filler since youll have to knock it down with a heavy grit sandpaper,the main purpose of primer is to fill the scratches and let you block it down smooth. starting at a lower paper and moving up is going to make the scratches smaller, thats why primer is so great. It fills the heavy scratches made by blocking your filler so you can start with a finer grit, go with a higher grit and its smooth when you go to lay paint. I do not trust any spray can primer as it is all CRAP. there is not one spray can primer that i would use and trust to keep my bodywork protected, even the good stuff that i have access too from dupont. i only trust a 2 part chemically activated and hardened primer to do so. BUT, considering you dont have an air compressor or a paint gun and the correct materials, the only ones that i would reccomend is dupont 1k primer, or u-pol urethane primer, its ok for temporary use but not a long term solution(in my personal opinion anyhow, ive seen spray can junk cause tons of problems. Ive used urethane 2k primer on a car, than 3 years later when the car was ready to be painted, it was perfectly fine when starting the prep process for paint). as far as feathering bodywork you should first prep your SURROUNDING surface with at least 320, the area that needs filler needs to be either grinded down or knocked down with a heavy grit, than lay your filler, than do your bodywork , youll be using at least 80 grit to form the filler how you want it and to block it flat, since you already prepped the surrounding area with 320, when you spray your primer the primer will adhere not only too the bodywork areas, but the surrounding areas, which will sort of act as feathering since there is no straight hard line from where the primer stopped and started. I always like to block the area or panel that ill be doing bodywork on before i start anything, that will show you the areas that need attention. after you prime, you need to block it with 320 or so, than start your finishing prep(500,600, 800, and higher if youd like)And yes, filler will absorb water, it is not made to be left out and exposed to the elements, it can crack and crumble if exposed to large amount of water for any amount of time. You need to protect the body filler and any exposed raw metal with primer. Heres the problem with spray can primer, it can react with alot of cleaners that need to be used to have real auto paint adhere properly. spray can reacts with all the cleaners that i use in the dupont system to clean a car before spraying anything, so if you plan on using proper stuff in the future, your better off to get the proper primer now and doing it right the first time to save yourself from having to backtrack later.

Last edited by IMPATIENT; 06-08-2009 at 06:24 PM.
IMPATIENT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2010, 08:59 AM   #20
Trial User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: What is "self-etching primer"?

As was stated earlier etching primer is for bare metal only. It is very porous and should be primered as soon as possible after spraying. It being porous is why you get good adhesion with your primer but, it should also be noted that it will absorb anything (such as water) and will lose the adhesion quality and make your prime and base coat bubble up. If it has been 24 hours or more the etcher MUST be sanded before primer is added. Also when storing any unused etcher make absolutely sure that it is closed and sealed up good or it will absorb moisture and the afore mentioned problems will occur. Hope this helps anyone.
shoot1 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
 
submit to reddit
Reply

Tags
1k, black, canada, car, clearcoat, dupont, etch, etching, grey, honda, paint, primer, sanding, selfetching, spray, video, what

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can epoxy primer be sprayed over self-etching primer (without ill effects)? fragmare Paint and Body 3 10-28-2012 08:54 PM
help with etching on window 1sickek187 Honda Civic/Del Sol (1992 - 2000) 10 05-05-2010 10:54 AM
painting my car myself..wish me luck SlammedEG6 Paint and Body 18 02-24-2009 02:49 PM
Metal Etching C1V1C Welding/Fabrication 7 01-24-2008 10:28 PM
which goes on first? etch primer or filler? daver Welding/Fabrication 10 09-25-2005 06:41 PM



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:10 AM.



2014 Copyright, InternetBrands Inc.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Honda and the Honda marquee are registered trademarks of the American Honda Motor Company, Inc. Neither American Honda Motor Company nor its subsidiaries or affiliates shall bear any responsibility for Honda-Tech.com content, comments, or advertising. Honda-Tech.com is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Company in any way. American Honda Motor Company does not sponsor, support, or endorse Honda-Tech.com in any way. Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.
Emails & Contact Details