hondacurious

So Ive come to the part of my project that I want to make sure I do everything perfect. So here we go. ive stripped car and did body work after scuffing entire car with 220. And block sanded filler with same grit. Next applied PPG eopxy primer which we use at work on helicopters. Block sanded with 220. Next layer I used Eastwood Primer surfacer. Block sanded with 400. Sooooooo Now the next and most critical step. Ive already purchased a new DeVILBISS paint gun and SPI clearcoat. Still indecisive on the paint color brand and color. Toss up between midori and thunder grey. Doesnt matter just what paints does anyone recommend. Not going with OMNI. Want something higher quality but not HOK. And this will be an autocross/weekend car. Garage kept. Any suggestions? Ill be making a homemade paintbooth with fans to create a positive pressure booth. Big question for the experts. After laying down the basecoat, do I wait an hour or two then shoot the clear or do I sand when dry, apply another coat of base, then shoot my multiple layers of clear? Once the clear is complete what grit do I sand with? Basically would like a thorough walk through on the next and final steps to this already lengthy body project that I was not expecting. Thanks Honda-tech!

PaintNShip

The paint isn't as important as the clear. A cheaper paint will take more material for coverage. If you are painting gray then you probably don't need the best since you already primered gray. If you are painting a gray / silver with metallic then you need to know how to spray it and make sure its sprayed correctly or else you'll get what looks like tiger stripes. Basically before you shoot just wet your floor and walls to prevent any dirt from coming up. Spray first coat all around the car then do the second coat, etc. use as many coats as needed until you cover all the areas with paint and are happy with the results. Maybe about 3-4 coats. as you go feel the paint bc if you don't mix the paint correct with reducer then it won't look good. If you feel and it feels like sandpaper then you didn't put enough reducer. If you spray and it looks to watery then you added too much reducer. If you have a show car baby that is your life then you can sand down the paint like an hour after you finish spraying it with like a 1000-2000 grit to flatten it out. If you decide to bypass this step which most every painter does then apply the clear coat about 30 -45 minutes after depending on how cold it is in your garage. Just make sure the paint is dry but not TOO dry. If painting a whole car you can almost get away with just clear coating right after painting since it takes about that time to spray around the car. If you do wait too long then you will need to sand the base coat. So base coating a car is the easy part. Clear coating is what takes the real talent. You need to make sure your PSI is right to not get ALOT of orange peel. You should actually practice clear coating before doing the car. After you clear coat let the car sit overnight, more if freezing weather. Depending on how the clear coat came out determines the grit sand paper you would use. If it is thick as hell then you might need a 1200 grit to cut a lot of it off, working your way up to 3000. If you're a good painter then you won't have a lot of peel and should be able to just use 3000. Then use compound and buff that SOB. This will take many hours to. If you never painted there is high risk you will F it up with it either being really orange peely or drips which might have you repainting.

gorillafart

iTrader: (1)

just going to piggyback off of paintnship's response, and re-iterate as well as reply in my own words:

find a paint brand that is the best quality you can afford in your price range. if you're looking for suggestions, PPG, Sikkens, sherwin williams AWX, comes to mind. Always do your best to stick to one paint company from primer to clearcoat.

you dont need to sand the basecoat if you're spraying wet on wet. meaning you spray a coat, let it flash (typically 10-15 minutes depending on your ambient temperature) then spray the 2nd coat (sometimes 3rd coat if needed). and if you're happy with the coverage you've gotten, let the basecoat flash for another 20-30mins (again, depending on your ambient temperature) then spray clearcoat.

Typically basecoats tend to have around a 24hour window in which you can basically spray the clearcoat. only after that window has closed would you need to sand the basecoat. if its a solvent basecoat, wetsand it. if the basecoat is a waterbase basecoat Drysand it then wipe clean and respray a layer of basecoat, then spray clearcoat. try not to wait this long to spray clear. because u dont want to sand basecoat if you can avoid it. you'll almost definitely end up with sanding particles that will show up in your clear.

after you've finished and your paintjob is all dried which could take any amount of time really depending on the type of reducer/hardener/activator you used. some can air dry in 4 hours some take 24 hours. and your ambient temperature will affect drying times as well. but after its dry, depending on how well you sprayed, you could wetsand the clearcoat with 1000grit followed by 2000, move to cutt and buff with a buffer.

get a spray out card from the auto paint store, so you can do a test run of the paint. you spray X amount of coats till the paint card is covered to the desired coverage, and clear it. that will give you an idea of how your paint will look on the car. if i were you i'd go out and find a used fender, and practice on that first.

hondacurious

thanks for the responese. Ive painted before. I work in aviation. But dont have a controlled area. And the paints we use are french based. Some are epoxy primers some a single stage. But the helicopter paint we use is Dupont IMron700. I cant for the life of me figure out how to apply without fisheyes. Every other paint I use is fine. Could be Im using low lint cloths and no tack cloth. I was looking at tcp global restoration shop paint. Read decent reviews. This car will be garage kept and only see track with a little weekend warrior. The tcp paint has no activator. It only gets reduced, sooooo a little hazy on that brand. The spi clear gets mixed 1:1 and the guy said I could use a reducer but doesnt recommend it. My main questions are basically answered. I read and now told by you guys to apply the clear on the wet base. Guess helps adhere the two together. I think Im going thunder grey with metallic. So can you explain these tigerstripes I need to watch out for? Ive read about them but havent seen much about preventive measures on them. Thanks honda-tech

PaintNShip

That tiger stripe effect happens different ways. Can happen if you spray too close, too much reducer in paint. They sell special reducers which you should ask your paint shop about. They have different strengths available depending on your temperature. You should see in the paint if you are leaving stripes in the paint if you look in detail. It helps if you let the 2nd to last coat dry very well (maybe 20-30 mins) and then apply the final coat at about 10 inch distance to erase any stripes you might have.

hondacurious

Thank you. So where can I buy these better brand paints. I had been on tcp global. But they only offer their restoration shop paint. And I'm not sure about that stuff yet. Also. What tends to give you more orange peel not enough reducer and too much air? So basically it dries before it is able to lay down on the surface? Thanks for all the responses. Just want to make sure that I do it right after all these months of prep work.

PaintNShip

orange peel can happen different ways. If your base coat is too thick like sand paper then your clear coat will most likely have orange peel. But the main reason you get orange peel is your hand movement when spraying clear. You need the right psi and the right distance and the right speed. If your PSI is too low you'll have orang peel, If you are spraying too far from the car then you'll have orange peel, spray too close and you might drip, If you move your spray hand too fast then you'll have orange peel, most too slow and you might drip.

This is where practice comes in. You should practice on something else first and as you spray look at what you're spraying. You want the finish to look like a mirror so make sure you can see a reflection in the clear you are spraying, If you see the reflection is hazy or unclear looking then move your hand closer, or raise psi, or slow down a little. You need the perfect balance between all 3 to get a good finish. This is where experience comes into play so play with it first.

hondacurious

awesome thanks. so the gun i bought said to adjust the valve regulator to 30 psi which is weird in my eyes since the technical data sheets always tell you a psi for their paint. Sounds like I need to go slower rather than fast. I paint a lot at work with various paints for touch up and parts on the helicopter but really not auto paint. But have never been given ANY training, so could be developing bad habits. Ive always been more afraid of runs rather orange peel so maybe I just need to slow a little. Heres the new gun I bought and have not used it yet. Will use on car first. Once done then Ill take to work. Appreciate the input. Im not a complete retard and learn quickly which is why I feel Im capable of doing this project. Just taking in as much as possible to ensure I have a paint job I can say I did and be proud of. Plus Im an ocd perfectionists. So if there is any more advice or ridicule, keep it coming.

hondacurious

also any input on where to buy paints at. do i need to call the actual companies, go to a collision place etc. And on avg anyone know how much a gallon of basic paint costs, maybe with a pearl or metallic. Deciding on thunder gray from the early integras, so I dont know if they can add a pearl or metallic. Probably need to research the difference and what effect it has on the paint/color.

gorillafart

iTrader: (1)

to add to the tiger stripe issue aka mottling: Tiger stripes can also come from having an improper/uneven spray pattern set on your gun. so you need to tape a giant piece of masking paper to wall, flat, and set your gun up and spray on it to see if your spray pattern is even. adjust the gun untill you have even atomization of the paint droplets. it shouldnt be heavier/or darker in anyspots, and it should be a uniform shape.

this video should give you an idea of how to set up a gun. i tend to spray my gun with wide open settings too. Full open air and material/paint, and maximum 29-31 psi:
Also when spraying a metallic color you need to finish it off with an orientation/drop/fog coat. this is typically done by dropping your pressure on your gun by half, moving away from the panel about 15-17 inches and basically misting on the orientation coat in an even but moderately paced manner. this helps to get the metalics to lay on top evenly as well as blend the paint job better. (you dont do this with a single stage metallic paint job though)


also if you're getting fish eyes, it typically means you have an unclean surface that might be some type of oil or mosture. and sometimes a spec of dust. A tack cloth will pick up dry particles such as dust and dirt but it wont wipe away a greasy panel. when i say greasy i mean for instance the oils that may come off your hand if you touched your panel. You need a proper surface cleaner meant for such a job, and the proper towels to wipe your surface. as well as proper wiping technique. typically you spray the surface cleaner, wipe with one towel in one direction, followed by a separate drying towel in the same direction. You dont do this on a wet basecoat and clearcoat. only dry/cured panels that you need to start painting on. and just before you start painting, thats when you wanna run thru the surface again with a tack cloth.

theres a lot of paint shops, most are specificically for home paints. find an automotive specific paint shop. a lot of times they'll sell different brands of paint, but will typically have a particular paint mixer bench in the back where they can mix up a color (by code, or paint chip) for you in the amount you desire.

92civicdxhatch

Since I read all this, I agree. I've painted hundreds of spot panels and probably fifty full paint jobs.. I've used every paint gun in the book, from cheapies to sata and iwata..

Setup is critical for an even coverage..
Don't stop moving your gun
When your finished spraying your last stroke for base or clear, spray a line on your paper like you were laying a stroke, so you can "ruin" it by touching to see how wet or dry your paint is. This is especially crucial for the clear. When the clear "strings" on your glove, shoot your second clear coat.
Good luck.

PaintNShip

For you its better you do not go for perfection when laying down the clear. Just make sure you have enough coat of clear even if it does have a lot of orange peel. It is a lot easier to sand down orange peel than drips. A good sand and buff will make even the crappiest paint jobs look awesome.

hondacurious

So to reiterate on the last post even if I get orange peel which I know I will, I should start at a 2000-3000 grit, block sand? Wet? Then began to buff with a specific buffing pad? At work I have acces to a dewalt buffer with two buffing pads from mguirars, a compound pad and polishing pad I believe. And then use some type of decent quality rubbing compound? Not making a show car but am an extreme perfectionists and just want to make sure I've done everything possible on my end to make the finishing product I'm proud of. Thanks h-t

hondacurious

Also can you apply too many coats of clear. Have 1 and 3/4 gallon of clear and am just checking. After the base and clear are **** I will probably let the car sit for the next month or two until I'm not so burnt out on it. So paint should be extra dry. Hopefully this route is ok

hondacurious

Do I need to apply sealer on top of surfacer before basecoat or is that just an added stage not really necessary

gorillafart

iTrader: (1)

Do you need to? you dont NEED to but, its a good precautionary step to take to ensure your basecoat and clearcoat will look uniform/even in color.

most primers now a days, can be used as a surfacer or a sealer just by using the proper additive. One additive will thicken the primer to be used as a primer surfacer so it can have a good thickness to it for sanding later. changing it out for another additive with the intention to use the primer as a sealer would thin out the primer so it can lay as smooth as possible to be used as a primer sealer

if you have new/used panels that came in a factory black ecoat color or different color than the rest of the car, its always good precaution to seal it. If you've already primer surfaced your whole car one color and sanded it down. then its up to you weather or not you need to use a sealer or not. but like i said its always a good step to take.

hondacurious

http://www.eastwood.com/images/pdf/50240INST.pdf

here is the primer i applied to the entire car. On technical data sheet doesnt say anything about applying sealer afterwards. It is the grey color primer. Thanks for all the input guys. Ordering paint this week then making the booth.

The clearcoat I bought with very slow activator. says use above 90 degrees. Will it be ok to use in 60 degree weather? Or will it just be more susceptible to runs? I thought the slower the activator the better, will help the paint lay more and avoid orange peel.

gorillafart

iTrader: (1)

A good primer whether it be sealer or surfacer, will offer good "hold out." meaning its formulated to not let any bondo work or multi-colored panels show through into the topcoats... So its up to you whether you think you need to seal it... But sealers are considered a topcoat. Typically, after you've done all your bodywork, filler, primed and sanded down your surfacer you move to sealer, basecoat, clearcoat. Sometimes there might be minor sanding marks in your surfacer that you may have missed, or just small spots of glazing putty that you put on your primer surfacer just to cover a deep scratch or shallow dent. Sealer will make sure you have a completely uniform color as a foundation for your base color and clearcoat to go on top of.

for your clearcoat, the colder your temperatures are, the faster activator you want. with the activator you have, It is more susceptible for runs because of the fact that your clear will take longer to dry. so its sitting there wet for longer than need be. But if that is all you have, then you work with what you got. Spray a coat and hopefully it comes out just fine, wait slightly longer for it to flash off b4 the second coat, than spray your second coat.

If you are spraying on a panel that lays horizontally like a roof or hood, the paints not going anywhere its just going to level out and lay there till its dry, but on vertical panels such as the sides of your car, gravity will pull that thing down if you layed it on slightly too thick. Im not saying its going to automatically just start running for no reason but a slower activator will take longer to dry. Also your painting technique in how heavy you spray your clearcoat or how many layers you attempt will matter too. 60 degrees is pretty cold to be painting. expect your flash times as well as drying times to double. so in the end, just take your time.

Hidenplanvew

So here are the steps to getting a good paint job...
Sand and body work
epoxy primer (corrosion protection) (follow induction time)
High build primer
Sand (80-180 if you want really flat panels) Then 320 dry or 400 wet with guide coat then 600 wet with guide coat.
Blow, tack, blow
seal Epoxy reduced 10%, induction time also used. (adhesion promotor for base coat also)
base (follow flash times based on 70 deg temps)
Tack very very lightly after using a fog coat
Clear (follow flash times, can also do the string test)
Cut and buff (if runs are present 800, 1500 wet if no runs but heavy orange peel start with 1500 wet then 2500 and you can use a DA 3000 grit and if you want less buffing 5000 grit)
The 3000 and 5000 are expensive but save a lot of time buffing.

reducers:
Fast 50 deg and below
Med 50-80 deg
Slow 80 deg plus

Flash times: Flash times are based on 70 deg temps, you can adjust flash times based on temps
Below 70 deg is add 15 min per 10 deg temps
above 70 deg remove 15 min per 10 deg temps ( when its hot you run around the car lol)
Don't think I missed anything

Hidenplanvew

get a good selection of sanding blocks too, I have been using eastwood's rolls of sand paper 80, 120, 320 and they all seam to work well

hondacurious

so just want to thank you guys for all the 411. Did the engine bay and pretty happy with the results. Finishing block sanding the rest of the car then gonna shoot the rest. Ill have questions about the cut and buff procedure in a couple weeks. Thanks

Hidenplanvew

let us know, I will say during cut and buff, 3000 and 5000 grit make buffing much quicker but is an expensive option

hondacurious

So did the body. Orange peelllllllllllll. In the clear not color. What's next. No runs. No fisheyes.

JDMswagSerf

Practice spraying technique and adjust gun if you get orange peel in clear and not base.
This happened to me for the longest time, base flat as hell, clear coat all orange peeled.

What i have done is spray one tack coat of clear, 1 med-wet coat, then 1 final wet coat with 50%-60%.

The chance of a run is higher if not careful, but if you do it right with proper distamce and flash times between coats, it will reduce orange peel!
I also found reducing the clear by 1/2 part helps.

For removing any peel left behind, 1200/1500 is a good start. Finishing with 2000/2500 would be good for a da to buff out with some good cutting compound and wool pad.

hondacurious

Sand by hand wet? Or should I buy an orbital. I have a orbital sander but I know it oscillates a lot and know that can leave bigger swirls. Bought 1000 1200 1500 2000 2500 3000 paper. About to buy 5000. Just use block sander like durablock? I need to finish the bumpers then I'm gonna start sanding everything. Trying not to a d d out and finish all paint first