How long before I can wet sand and buff?
02-19-2008, 03:27 PM
#26
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Re: (IMPATIENT)
OUCH! Thanks for the harsh critisizm. Just to let you know, I did practice before I shot this car...Lool below. The only difference is that I used Matrix base coat and then Nason clear on top. I did the engine bay and the valve cover. I think it came out great considering it being my firt time.
After the base and clear without wetsanding/buffing
But thanks for the feeback anyway bro. I guess I do agree with you on the way the clear cam dry rouph at times cause I did not have any problems with my engine bay or valve cover at all! Mind you this was all done at home in a one car garage.
After the base and clear without wetsanding/buffing
But thanks for the feeback anyway bro. I guess I do agree with you on the way the clear cam dry rouph at times cause I did not have any problems with my engine bay or valve cover at all! Mind you this was all done at home in a one car garage.
02-19-2008, 03:38 PM
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Re: (spool310)
that looks great.
good, glad to see you practiced. smaller areas are always gonna look better because of two things, Coverage and fatigue.
small areas like engine bays and valve covers are easy to cover and lay clear wet, and you wont have nearly as many dry spots because of the small area and the ability to cover the area in a shorter amount of time.
large areas however like cars require the proper technique and overlapping. or you end up with real textury areas that are dry and flaky looking. not to mention nason basecoat does not like to lay flat either. it loves to hard and dry and doesnt cover for crap so you have to put more coats on to get coverage than more expensive paints. but hey, it was your first car. good job, you can reclear it and itll probably look alot better.
oh and that engine bay looks awesome with the wiretuck and all.
good, glad to see you practiced. smaller areas are always gonna look better because of two things, Coverage and fatigue.
small areas like engine bays and valve covers are easy to cover and lay clear wet, and you wont have nearly as many dry spots because of the small area and the ability to cover the area in a shorter amount of time.
large areas however like cars require the proper technique and overlapping. or you end up with real textury areas that are dry and flaky looking. not to mention nason basecoat does not like to lay flat either. it loves to hard and dry and doesnt cover for crap so you have to put more coats on to get coverage than more expensive paints. but hey, it was your first car. good job, you can reclear it and itll probably look alot better.
oh and that engine bay looks awesome with the wiretuck and all.
02-19-2008, 03:56 PM
#28
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Re: (IMPATIENT)
THanks, I appreciate the props. And yes, it took at least 2-3 coats to cover all the primer on the car with the Nason. I hate it, but I could not afford the good stuff. Do you know of any other non-expensive paint that covers well?
02-19-2008, 04:05 PM
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Re: (IMPATIENT)
Damn that thing is tore up to the floor up. At least its good for practice. I see a few problems with that car besides the paint. Whats up with the trunk gap along the tail light and the quarter glass goobers in the crevice. Looks like you didn't walk the panels and you stopped your stroke in the middle of the QP. As far as re-clearing, 800 grit wet would be fine. Maybe get a used door and try fixing what you can.
The EK looks ok though.
The EK looks ok though.
02-19-2008, 04:10 PM
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Re: (spool310)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spool310 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">THanks, I appreciate the props. And yes, it took at least 2-3 coats to cover all the primer on the car with the Nason. I hate it, but I could not afford the good stuff. Do you know of any other non-expensive paint that covers well?</TD></TR></TABLE>
well, thats one reason your car came out so textury. you had to pile the basecoat on there because you sprayed right over primer. You should have used SEALER. ive been painting for years, work in a shop and do show quality paint jos and in my view you should always use sealer over primer. primer can act like a sponge and absorb basecoat. depending on what primer you use(lacquer/urethane/epoxy) it will be worse because of absorbtion or vapor release. Sealer is exactly what it sounds like. it seals the primer in and gives you a uniform colored surface to spray over so you dont get varying shades of color, its very crucial on colors other than black. but you still should have used sealer cause your basecoat would have covered so much better.
And im not sure what your definition of inexpensive is. you could have got Cromabase, which is made by dupont and is the line above nason, Cromabase is what we use in our shop cause its a great quality paint, has awesome color matching characteristics, has great spraying coverage,atomizes very well,lays even and unifromly and the g2-779s clear is freaking awesome and if it needs buffing it is super easy to get perfect. it would have probably been like 600 bucks for a quart of sealer, a gallon of ready to spray base and a gallon of clear and activator, and the quality of the material is so much better and worth the price. Cromapremier is the next step up and its really expensive and in my opinion isnt worth the price cause the differences in that and cromabase are minute in my opinion vs the price difference.
well, thats one reason your car came out so textury. you had to pile the basecoat on there because you sprayed right over primer. You should have used SEALER. ive been painting for years, work in a shop and do show quality paint jos and in my view you should always use sealer over primer. primer can act like a sponge and absorb basecoat. depending on what primer you use(lacquer/urethane/epoxy) it will be worse because of absorbtion or vapor release. Sealer is exactly what it sounds like. it seals the primer in and gives you a uniform colored surface to spray over so you dont get varying shades of color, its very crucial on colors other than black. but you still should have used sealer cause your basecoat would have covered so much better.
And im not sure what your definition of inexpensive is. you could have got Cromabase, which is made by dupont and is the line above nason, Cromabase is what we use in our shop cause its a great quality paint, has awesome color matching characteristics, has great spraying coverage,atomizes very well,lays even and unifromly and the g2-779s clear is freaking awesome and if it needs buffing it is super easy to get perfect. it would have probably been like 600 bucks for a quart of sealer, a gallon of ready to spray base and a gallon of clear and activator, and the quality of the material is so much better and worth the price. Cromapremier is the next step up and its really expensive and in my opinion isnt worth the price cause the differences in that and cromabase are minute in my opinion vs the price difference.
02-19-2008, 04:14 PM
#31
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Damn, I dont even know how the hell you can notice all of that PowerFlow. But yea, I am not really interested in working on the body. Just really concentrated on the paint aspect of it for now. I really think that you hace to be "the man" to deal with body work. I bet after I 800 and reclear, it should look a lot better than what it was. I am going to do this by sections this time so that way I can prevent overspray.
Yea Impatient, I hear that cromabase is pretty good. I spent about $370 for 3Quarts base along with reducer and activator and one gallon clear and Primer. But I guess you get what you pay for. I will look into the sealer. All I knew to use on the plastic parts was a product called "Bulldog". I beleive it works great as an adhesive.
Yea Impatient, I hear that cromabase is pretty good. I spent about $370 for 3Quarts base along with reducer and activator and one gallon clear and Primer. But I guess you get what you pay for. I will look into the sealer. All I knew to use on the plastic parts was a product called "Bulldog". I beleive it works great as an adhesive.
02-19-2008, 04:23 PM
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Re: (spool310)
yea bulldog is good stuff. i use it on tons of stuff, its an adhesion promotor that is widely used in the industry and for good reason,it does its job.
02-19-2008, 04:27 PM
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Re: (spool310)
Completes with all the panels on the car generally require a slow hardener and the appropriate temp reducer to control the flash time.
Some sealer is just reduced primer so sealing is not always needed if you are ready to base in a good primed surface. It really depends on the materials and specific brands. Some sealers can also do the same thing that some primers do, cause die back, ect. I prefer to us a good primer that's tinted or colored white/dark/gray according to the base being used, if doing a complete prime and repaint.
Achieving full coverage in 2-3 base coats is as good as its going to get, so don't worry on improving that. I use BASF Diamont, look into some of that stuff also.
Some sealer is just reduced primer so sealing is not always needed if you are ready to base in a good primed surface. It really depends on the materials and specific brands. Some sealers can also do the same thing that some primers do, cause die back, ect. I prefer to us a good primer that's tinted or colored white/dark/gray according to the base being used, if doing a complete prime and repaint.
Achieving full coverage in 2-3 base coats is as good as its going to get, so don't worry on improving that. I use BASF Diamont, look into some of that stuff also.
02-19-2008, 04:43 PM
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Re: (powerflow)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by powerflow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Completes with all the panels on the car generally require a slow hardener and the appropriate temp reducer to control the flash time.
Some sealer is just reduced primer so sealing is not always needed if you are ready to base in a good primed surface. It really depends on the materials and specific brands. Some sealers can also do the same thing that some primers do, cause die back, ect. I prefer to us a good primer that's tinted or colored white/dark/gray according to the base being used, if doing a complete prime and repaint.
Achieving full coverage in 2-3 base coats is as good as its going to get, so don't worry on improving that. I use BASF Diamont, look into some of that stuff also.</TD></TR></TABLE>
im in some sort of aggreance. ive had poblems with sponging/dieback with some primers and i just go with what works for me. your right though if its prepped good enough and its the right shade you can just spray right over it, i just dont like to.ive never had an instance where the sealer has bled through, i use 2k urethane sealer and also go with the appropriate value shade sealer on the panel being repaired when doing a repair/blend job . when its a complete respray ill stick with whatever is appropriate to the base. i just think it would have been a good idea for him to use sealer cause if that primer wasnt smooth as a babies butt or the right shade its probably gonna have some potential bleed through.
Some sealer is just reduced primer so sealing is not always needed if you are ready to base in a good primed surface. It really depends on the materials and specific brands. Some sealers can also do the same thing that some primers do, cause die back, ect. I prefer to us a good primer that's tinted or colored white/dark/gray according to the base being used, if doing a complete prime and repaint.
Achieving full coverage in 2-3 base coats is as good as its going to get, so don't worry on improving that. I use BASF Diamont, look into some of that stuff also.</TD></TR></TABLE>
im in some sort of aggreance. ive had poblems with sponging/dieback with some primers and i just go with what works for me. your right though if its prepped good enough and its the right shade you can just spray right over it, i just dont like to.ive never had an instance where the sealer has bled through, i use 2k urethane sealer and also go with the appropriate value shade sealer on the panel being repaired when doing a repair/blend job . when its a complete respray ill stick with whatever is appropriate to the base. i just think it would have been a good idea for him to use sealer cause if that primer wasnt smooth as a babies butt or the right shade its probably gonna have some potential bleed through.
02-19-2008, 04:57 PM
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Re: (IMPATIENT)
Yeah it really depends on the product. 2K sealer should never bleed through unless the wrong tint was used and/or full base color coverage was not achieved. Die-back is a classic result of too much overall solvent under and with 2K clear and/or incorrect flash time, lack of curing. Different strokes for different paint systems, but sealing is good if your unfamiliar with the material and general process. There is so many if's, do and dont's involved in painting.
02-19-2008, 04:57 PM
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Re: (IMPATIENT)
No, the primer that I used was not smooth until I wet sanded it with 600. Then it was smooth. I did not let 24hrs go by after I primered before I painted.
02-20-2008, 05:18 AM
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Re: (powerflow)
Mix ratio was 2:1. I beleive it was Nason as well. But you got me confused with the whole tint thing. I take i there are differnt colors of pirmer. Was the light grey one that I used appropriate for black base coat?
02-20-2008, 05:41 AM
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Re: (spool310)
I'm not familiar with that product line so I really can't say for sure that caused the die-back. Also don't know what hardener and flash times used either. If I'm not force drying primer, 24 hrs is the minimum dry air cure time w/ regular speed hardener, before prepping.
Black typically covers well so that color primer is ok but not ideal. A dark gray primer would be the one to go with or a dark tint sealer.
Not all paint lines offer different color primers. The BASF Diamont line has white, gray, dark gray and black primer and sealer.
Black typically covers well so that color primer is ok but not ideal. A dark gray primer would be the one to go with or a dark tint sealer.
Not all paint lines offer different color primers. The BASF Diamont line has white, gray, dark gray and black primer and sealer.
02-20-2008, 09:26 AM
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Re: (spool310)
Nope, its not needed when using the DP line, or at least most of the DP line like the DP high builds. The DP-26 is a high build primer 4:1 and a tint-able sealer 4:1:1 w/ reducer.
02-20-2008, 12:13 PM
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Re: How long before I can wet sand and buff? (spool310)
BTW... Just for giggles, I decided to wetsand/buff/polish the front end which did not look that bad as far as clear goes. Look at the outcome. I dont think it looks that bad. Mind you, this is without applying the final glaze. I do have a question though, what do I use to apply and remove buffing compund and or polish to hard to reach areas?
BTW...this stuff is messy as hell. The buffing compound gets all over the place and then the little dust particel it leaves are a pain in the ***.
BTW...this stuff is messy as hell. The buffing compound gets all over the place and then the little dust particel it leaves are a pain in the ***.
02-20-2008, 12:47 PM
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Re: (powerflow)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by powerflow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not familiar with that product line so I really can't say for sure that caused the die-back. Also don't know what hardener and flash times used either. If I'm not force drying primer, 24 hrs is the minimum dry air cure time w/ regular speed hardener, before prepping.
Black typically covers well so that color primer is ok but not ideal. A dark gray primer would be the one to go with or a dark tint sealer.
Not all paint lines offer different color primers. The BASF Diamont line has white, gray, dark gray and black primer and sealer.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nason is duponts inexpensive line, mainly for low cost overalls,not for any repair jobs. horrible matching quality and such. you spray the base one day and the next hour its a completely different color. its ok for overalls but it lays rough, and the clear just doesnt have the shine that the upperlines have, its even a pain to buff. and of course no uv protection so it tends to yellow after a while if its not properly cared for. as far as the primer. it lays very textury no matter what. its a decent primer but i would never spray over this stuff. as far as colors, ive never seen an actual tinted nason primer, the cromabase does come in different colors,cromabase is the next step up and is some good material. of course you can always tint the nason primer with a dab of color but it doesnt come from dupont in anything but grey from my past experience dealing with dupont shops. all we use is cromabase and cromapremier,those lineshave different color sealers and primers and is a really good line of product, expensive compared to nasion or omni, but worth it.
Black typically covers well so that color primer is ok but not ideal. A dark gray primer would be the one to go with or a dark tint sealer.
Not all paint lines offer different color primers. The BASF Diamont line has white, gray, dark gray and black primer and sealer.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nason is duponts inexpensive line, mainly for low cost overalls,not for any repair jobs. horrible matching quality and such. you spray the base one day and the next hour its a completely different color. its ok for overalls but it lays rough, and the clear just doesnt have the shine that the upperlines have, its even a pain to buff. and of course no uv protection so it tends to yellow after a while if its not properly cared for. as far as the primer. it lays very textury no matter what. its a decent primer but i would never spray over this stuff. as far as colors, ive never seen an actual tinted nason primer, the cromabase does come in different colors,cromabase is the next step up and is some good material. of course you can always tint the nason primer with a dab of color but it doesnt come from dupont in anything but grey from my past experience dealing with dupont shops. all we use is cromabase and cromapremier,those lineshave different color sealers and primers and is a really good line of product, expensive compared to nasion or omni, but worth it.
02-20-2008, 01:15 PM
#45
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Re: How long before I can wet sand and buff? (spool310)
BTW... this is the aftermath of the horrible door that looked like dried up clear after I just wetsanded and buffed it... I can't beleive it actually worked. I might just do the whole car instead of re-clearing.
02-23-2008, 07:07 AM
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Re: How long before I can wet sand and buff? (spool310)
what kind of hard to reach areas ?. they make mini buffers if you need to get into small spaces. but if you cant get to them you may need to reclear.
02-23-2008, 09:41 AM
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Re: How long before I can wet sand and buff? (IMPATIENT)
No, I dont see the need in re-clearing as I was able to buff out all those horrible dry clear spots without the need to re-clear. I was refering to the morrors and in the bumper grill areas and such. Is there anything I can do to it by hand?
