BryantReyes

What are the best HIDs kit to buy out there? I know the Xentec stuff is cheap and is not very good at lighting.

94 accord typeR

Morimotos are good after market HIDs. DENSO is OEM (not PnP)
Anything else/ebay will suck

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

Morimoto all the way IMO. I tried to save by piecing together Morimoto projectors and bulbs with a home-made harness and xentex ballasts.... my ballasts on the headlights have flickered since day one and the passenger side fog light ballast let out a nice puff of smoke last week LOL. Gonna upgrade to Morimoto ballasts too and be done with it.

LowTEC SaiMike

iTrader: (7)

If you can piece together an OEM setup that would be best.

Stopsign32v

iTrader: (1)

Where do you guys get them from?

rollinmyda

iTrader: (19)

The retrofit source

Thmanx

They are hands done the best 3rd party hid systems on the market. Period, no exceptions.


If your really-really good you might be able to piece together a kit with similar quality for a few bucks less. But save your self the trouble and go with a brand that has the best ratings and customer service of them all.

Tachi

Do Moriomoto HID's focus any better than other manufacture retrofit kits? the actual bulbs look to be the same shape.

Thmanx

Ha, their bulbs are second to none.

Tachi

That doesn't actually answer my question. Quality of manufacture is different from the actual design of the bulb. Is the beam still scattered and glaring like other plug-in HID retrofits? $150 is fair for good quality but if I'll still get a ticket for them I'll stick with Sylvania SS-Ultras.

rollinmyda

iTrader: (19)

Yes. Plug-n-play kits in a halogen reflector headlamp aren't ever going to perform like an OEM headlamp designed for HIDs. They will scatter and glare because that's the nature of halogen housings. Even halogen projectors glare like crazy with HIDs because focal point isn't correct. If you want quality HID output I suggest you strongly consider doing a real retrofit. Most people don't care about doing things correctly and just want blue, purple, pink, green, (insert color here) lights. If that's the look you're going for, more power to you. If not, do some reading on retrofitting OEM HIDs the right way or stick with halogen bulbs.

FYI, most of the time you'll have better visibilty with the OEM halogen bulbs than with the cheap PNP HIDs in halogen housings.

OEM HIDS> halogen> PNP HIDs

Tachi

My Accord came with cheap 8000k HID PNP kits and Sylvania SS Ultras do look brighter, certainly a better tint, I'm just...iffy about still using incandescent tech for headlights.

rollinmyda

iTrader: (19)

Generally incandescent and halogen are considered to be different bulb types. I understand what you're saying though. No nitpick intended....

The thing that needs to be understood is the headlamp housings for your car were designed around a specific halogen bulb and a ton of engineering went into utilizing the light from that specific bulb efficiently without creating any more glare than necessary. The kit HID bulbs are not designed with exacting tolerances and will always create more glare in a halogen reflector housing. Don't get me wrong, I prefer HIDs to halogen. I just despise tacky, glaring, inefficient plug-n-play kits in headlights that weren't designed for them. They look cheap, glare like crazy and put the light everywhere but where you want it.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

DA, you're on point with your observations. Optics are designed around the bulbs, so swapping in any type of light source other than what originally came with the housing will alwaysnet you poorer overall output... period. You must swap in the optics that go with the source, whether it's halogen, HID, LED, or whale oil lanterns.

Thmanx... I decided to bring the sedan with me to Cali after all. May need some of them sweet housings in a few months, once I get settled in.

Thmanx

This should help.

Again this dest is using the latest 2015 design for Morimoto. The XB 9006 with an XB series ballast. And still the output is quire glare-ie (brighter down-range hotspot then the LEDS can do though)

With some LED work, you can reduce the amount of over-horizon glare, but you lose the focus of a downrange hot-top leading to a more fore-ground based light output. (projector housing, less so)








Or just go with a high-quality Halogen. Sure not as bright as an HID, but it puts more light downrange on the road where you need it most, and some of the newest ones get pretty-dange white w/o compromise.

rollinmyda

iTrader: (19)

That's some good info!

Unfortunately so many people care only about how cheap they can get parts for and how colorful they can be that they put no thought into actual useable output on the road in front of them. Headlights are the #1 most important safety device your car will have at night and yet nobody seems to care that they are arbitrarily reducing them to next to useless for the sake of "flashiness on the cheap".

Thmanx

This is very true.

The way I see it, the least I can do is show them what they are going to do to themselves.
Maybe they simply arn't informed and just need a little side-by-side wake up.

Thmanx

And while were at it, here is an excerpt from the DOTs NHTSA 25 page long docket about their on going discussion and investigation on documented headlight glare complaints and issues.

The entire article is quite long (though well written) I find these to parts to be rather enlightening.


Its worth the read though, i think they pretty much hit everything on the head, and then back it with supporting evidence, and even a closing argument.
From HID color, output, blue bulbs, HID conversions, etc etc


hang on folks...








2.2 - Glare from High Intensity Discharge Headlamps <-- note this sections is specific to HID lamps in general, more specifically OEM units)

In the case of HIDs, we have received numerous complaints stating that these newer lamps produce excessive glare. Even though they are required to comply with all federal lighting requirements and we have no reason to believe that they do not comply, HIDs are still being singled out as being troublesome glare producers for other drivers. The reason expressed by drivers is that the HID headlamps are brighter. This may be due to the spectral content of the produced light, the generally wider and more robust beam pattern, and/or their conspicuous color relative to other headlamps, or misaim.

In an effort to create a headlamp which provides better illumination, longer life, and a unique styling appearance, vehicle lighting manufacturers developed HIDs. They have been typically offered on higher end vehicles and can cost as much a $400 to $800 for the option. HIDs are unlike conventional halogen headlamps in that they operate more like street lamps. Instead of heating a tungsten filament, an electrical arc is created between two electrodes. This excites a gas inside the headlamp (usually xenon) which in turn vaporizes metallic salts. These vaporized metallic salts sustain the arc and emit the light used for the headlamp's beam. These lamps provide more light than that produced by halogen lamps and only use two-thirds the power. As a result, they are more efficient, and because there is no filament to burn out, these bulbs are claimed to last for as much as 100,000 miles of driving time.

Although the agency has seen advertising and received many complaints claiming that the light produced by HIDs is twice or three times as bright as that which is produced by halogen lamps, laboratory measurement, made by various parties, do not support these claims. HID light sources (bulbs) typically have about two to three times the available light flux (volume) of halogen light sources, but because of such an abundance of light, the HID optical design does not necessarily need to be as efficient at collecting and distributing light as a halogen system. The HID beam pattern is certainly more robust, providing more even and wider illumination and the potential for better visibility and comfort. This performance results in more light on the road surface and more of the roadway being illuminated. However, this additional light is not supposed to be projected upward from the lamp toward other drivers' eyes. During inclement weather, when the road surface is wet, the additional volume of light can result in higher levels of light reflected off the road surface into other drivers' eyes. However, those who have complained about HID glare have not specifically reported inclement weather as the only time when there is a problem with HID glare.

Another factor that may be involved is the phenomenon that may have occurred with the introduction of halogen lamps in the early 1980's. Drivers are attracted to headlamps that are different colors than would normally be seen. As such, the drivers may look directly at oncoming headlamps during driving to see the unfamiliar item. This is something that they do not normally do. Initial halogen headlamp introduction elicited some glare complaints, even though the first halogens used were actually very similar in performance to the standard non-halogens headlamps. The only marked difference was the color of the halogen headlamps. If this is the case now, one would expect glare complaints about HIDs to stop when drivers become familiar with the HID color. NHTSA is aware of no studies or evidence to suggest that this theory is correct.

Another factor that may lead to the perception that HIDs are significantly brighter than halogen lamps is that human eyes may be more sensitive to bluish-white light of HIDs than to yellowish-white light of halogens. When observing some HIDs, it may seem that they are not emitting white light, as required by Standard No. 108. However, when observing the beam pattern projected on a white screen, HID headlamps that comply with our lighting standard will appear to be white with color separations occurring only at the extreme edges of the pattern. Non-halogen, halogen, and HID light sources appear to be different colors to observers. Non-halogen lamps appear to be yellow when compared to halogen lamps, and halogen lamps appear to be yellow when compared to HIDs.

In a recent study by the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute (Flannagan, M. J.; 1999, ASubjective and Objective Aspects of Headlamp Glare: Effects of Size and Spectral Power Distribution," Report No. UMTRI-99-36, available in Docket Number: NHTSA-2001-8885-3) the differences reported between halogen versus HID lamps caused a small but statistically significant difference in discomfort glare noted by observers. However, it had no effect on disability glare. It is not known yet whether it is the difference in spectral power density of these headlamps, but this difference in the human eye's glare response to these different lamp designs is shown in that study.

HIDs are not just more white (having less yellow content and more blue content in the emitted spectrum), but the light is generated in a different manner. HIDs achieve light by having vaporized metallic salts participate in the electrical current flow through an arc in the bulb capsule. This is contrasted to a heated metal filament which gives a relatively even level of light at all colors in the spectrum, and thus achieves smoother white light. The HIDs blend of metallic salts is designed such that the different salts, emitting different colors of light with different energy levels, will complement each other when fully heated and electricity is passed through them, because each salt contributes various frequencies of light and at different levels of energy. The result is white light, but with a few relatively high energy spikes of light at very narrow bandwidths. These spikes are obvious in a mapping of the spectral power density of the light emitted. (See Docket Number: NHTSA-2001-8885-4, USA Today, June 7, 2001, "Bright Lights, Big Controversy" by James R. Healey, page 1, the side bar Aharsh blue light contributes to glare"). This comparison shows that the light spectrum of HIDs is not as smooth as the light from a heated filament in a halogen lamp. It is possible that our eyes are not necessarily reacting to the whiter light, but to the high energy spikes that rise above a background energy achieving the white light. If this is a cause for the UMTRI findings, it may be that a redesign of the HID system is necessary. However, this is just a theory, with no supporting data. NHTSA is initiating research to study all potential factors that may be causing HIDs to be an annoying lighting source.




2.3 - Glare from HID Look-alike Bulbs and Other Colored Headlamp Bulbs

The advent of HIDs on more expensive vehicles has spawned attempts at achieving halogen-based look-a-likes. These are achieved by using coated, tinted, filtered or otherwise altered glass capsules for the halogen headlamp bulbs that can be used in place of the OEM bulbs. Alternatively, aftermarket headlamp housings with similar coating, tinting and filtering are being sold as replacements for OEM headlamps. The goal of many of these bulbs is to emit light that is different than an OEM halogen headlamp bulb, while attempting to maintain a headlamp's legally complying performance. The whiter light is offered as being closer in color to natural daylight, thus the claim is that drivers see better with the same amount of emitted light. This is not unique in motor vehicle lighting history; in fact, it is the same claim and intent as accompanied the 1929 Tung-Sol Blue-Wite TM headlamp bulb. The yellow variants of colored bulbs are intended to be more useful in wet weather where the color, still measured to be white, is more yellow than OEM halogen bulbs. The intent is to offer a color of light less likely to be reflected back from precipitation and fog. At the other extreme of colored aftermarket bulbs, are those that are very blue or multicolored. The multicolored bulbs are the result of many different colors being emitted by the bulb in various directions, instead of white light being emitted in all directions as occurs in normal halogen bulbs.

Generically categorized as "blue" bulbs, all of these aftermarket bulbs have become popular among auto enthusiasts and some other drivers, either because the bulbs produce the look of a more expensive vehicle at a fraction of the cost, or claims of improved visibility. Many of the bulbs are from well known bulb manufacturers, others are from less familiar companies and importers. Depending on the make and model of bulb desired, some are sold by auto parts stores and mass merchandisers, others are sold by specialty auto accessory stores and through the Internet. While there are no reasons to believe that all such bulbs cause headlamps to perform badly, many such bulbs do just that, as explained below.

The designing original equipment headlamp bulbs is a precise science, fraught with many design compromises in order to achieve the desired balance of energy usage, service life, emitted light and robust optical images of the filament. In general, headlamp bulb designs take years of thoughtful work in consultation with the designers of headlamp optics. The OEM bulb design is standardized and codified by industry consensus in SAE and International Electrotechnical Committee (IEC) standards so that all bulb manufacturers can build and sell bulbs with the expectation that they will perform in a safe and satisfactory manner in all headlamps in service. This standardization is incorporated into Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108, Lamps, reflective devices and associated equipment (FMVSS 108) by referencing information about each bulb. This information is in Docket Number: NHTSA-98-3397.

(Regarding low quality Tuner bulbs)
When changing the basic design of a headlamp bulb the way that placing a coating, filter or tinting can, the results can range from just color changes to reducing the emitted volume of light from a headlamp by almost half. For example, certain kinds of filters and coatings, while having the effect of reducing yellow light emission, are sometimes also very reflective. The result is that, instead of most of the light coming from the filament directly through the glass capsule and being used by the headlamp's optical design to have a focused beam down the road, the light bounces once or twice off the inner wall of the bulb. This causes strong images of the filament to be emitted from the capsule in directions and intensities never possible in the standardized OEM design. Because headlamps are designed to use standardized bulbs, the lighting performance of the headlamp could be markedly different, both impairing seeing down the road and causing others to have undue glare, when a modified, non-standardized bulb is substituted. Such poorly designed bulbs may also be a reason for the public's glare complaints.

(Regarding quality aftermarket halogens (PIAA,Osram,Philips,etc)
In contrast, if the bulb designer uses a more benign filter element, the inner bulb reflectivity may be substantially reduced or virtually eliminated. For a bulb that is intended to be whiter, less yellow light may be emitted, giving the light a whiter, even bluish light, but still white light as defined in various industrial and legal standards. To assure that this bulb emits the equivalent and correct volume of light compared to an OEM version, the filament design must be subtly changed, but not so much so that wattage increases above the acceptable limits required of a standard bulb. These careful changes may continue to make the bulb interchangeable with an OEM design without noticeable consequence other than whiter light.

Besides replacing the OEM bulbs with bulbs with the characteristics described above, it is possible to purchase whole headlamps and replacement lenses for those that are replaceable, that are tinted. Under our standards, these must comply, with our lighting standard but again, the blue, or other color, tinting may have similar adverse disturbing and disabling glare effects .


(This section is about Conversion Kits)
Another disturbing trend in this look-a-like phenomenon is the substitution of OEM filament headlamp bulbs with aftermarket HID conversion bulbs. The desire is to achieve the look and achieve the more robust performance of HIDs. While not designed to be interchangeable, some aftermarket companies are substantially altering the HID bulb bases or providing adapters so that the HID bulbs can be inserted in headlamps designed for filament bulbs. The consequence of making these substitutions is to adversely affect safety. Filament headlamps are optically designed for the volume of light and filament placement and other critical dimensions and performance that OEM filament bulbs have. The HID conversions result in two to three times the volume of light and potentially imprecise arc placement. Such conversions often result in beam patterns that behave nothing like the original filament beam pattern, cannot be reliably aimed, and have many times the permitted glare intensity. In informal conversations with persons who have tested such conversions, the light intensity on one at a point aimed toward oncoming drivers was 22 times the allowable intensity limit. Another lamp was more than 7 times too intense. With poor HID bulb and arc placement, the glare intensity could be significantly worse. Thus, the use of these conversions could be yet another source of the glare problems about which many drivers have complained.

Regarding bluer light achieved by these filament bulbs, recent research (Sullivan, J.M. and Flannagan, M.J.: AVisual Effects of Blue-Tinted Tungsten-Halogen Headlamp Bulbs", Report No. UMTRI-2001-9, available in Docket: NHTSA-2001-8885-2) shows consistency with prior research, that discomfort glare ratings increase as the chromaticity moves toward the blue color range of the visible light spectrum. The authors also state that there is no evidence to show that target detection is enhanced with such blue colored headlamps, either in direct viewing or peripheral viewing of illuminated targets. This, essentially, shows that there likely is an inherent disbenefit from the use of such blue bulbs and headlamps that are intended to change the color of light emitted from headlamps. While one might assume that this also applies to the bluer HID powered OEM headlamps, the authors did not study this, nor speculate about it.




Source: http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/glare.html

rollinmyda

iTrader: (19)

I hope people thoroughly read that!

Thmanx

I'm not trying to rain on anyones parade. I mean given the options I'd use HID's my folks minivan. But if I did, I'd do my best to get the best set i could and adjust-aim them so the light is where it should be. At least out of someones eyes.

Things in the honda world would at least be a little better if people used better HID kits. Most I see in customers cars are falling apart, not even installed right, bulbs crooked. Let alone the color quality is horrible and the ballasts don't even pull 35W... its all downhill.

People with setups like that, honestly, would see a huge improvement with a set of good Halogens.




Heres an example that came in last week.
New customer to the shop, picked up a car from a friend who had some original Denji's from the late 90's

He didnt want an HID kit at first because he said he had one already. When i checked what he had, I saw a 8000K "RS-Type" low-beam only H4 HID bulb that was ground down and shoved in sideways into the Denji.
The poor thing is designed to take an H3 bulb... this was completely bad.

This guy was blown away how much better he saw with a $50 set of NightTech PIAAs...

Thmanx

Because #ForScience

Click for insane res. 10,000x7000

dmanthe1

personally i like xenonhids.com i bought a kit with an extra harness for 130 with a lifetime warranty. if the ballasts go i get new ones for free