bb6_00

breaking my head on this one. First of all I have 2000 prelude base, 68mm throttle body with FITV eliminated. I changed the msd coil back to stock coil, change spark plugs, change distributor and rotor, and nothing. I live in Puerto Rico and it is NEVER colder than 70 degrees on a "winter" night in the mountains so to my understanding I dont need the FITV its never gonna snow here. Problem is my engine when cold just turns over turns over and over and after about starting it intermittently for about 10 minutes, it starts.

-fuel pressure gauge says there is pressure and as soon as i remove the key it goes down

-checked all fuses

-checked battery underload, even used a emergency car starter

-cleaned map sensor

-bled coolant

-fuel is 93 octane shell


Basically the only thing i have left is change fuel filter and change the main relay. I unplugged a wire from the distributor cap to test for spark, no spark, than I tested on the coil, no spark. im stumped and today is cool rainy day so its even harder to start and i have to take breaks for the rain.

bb6_00

btw Fuel pressure is set to 38 psi maybe if i set it to about 42-44 it should start? But i dont see how lean would cause no spark.

Acidcrakker

There is an ignition recall on the BB6. That would explain your problem.

bb6_00

really? Am i too late though?

just passed by honda mechanic he told me to verify the CPS (crank position sensor) and the ignition module. Said to bring it in tomorrow, but i was thinking more of the main relay since there is no spark leaving the coil with 2 differeent coils. Ill research the recall. thanks.

bb6_00

just got off phone with "american honda" also known as Honda of America, they ran my vin and there is one recall which is for the iginition switch in which the key can be removed while the vehicle is on and not in Park or Neutral. I have a manual tranny and dont have this issue either


thanks for the help anyway

bb6_00

how to i verify the crank position sensor? and module? I prefer saving some $ and not bringing to the shop since i have the tools

bb6_00

did even more research guess the only way to know if the module is bad is by chaging it. Honda will give the module for $100 and pep boys for 110 difference is pep boys gives me a one year warranty. Im just gonna head out now and buy it, install it without getting dirty and if it doesnt work just bring it back in.

bb6_00

just changed ignition module....no change....stumped.....


relay? ecu?

Acidcrakker

You can resolider the relay. I know 4th gens had that issue. IDK if the 5th gen had it too.

bb6_00

resolider or resolder? Didnt know a really was repairable.

http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/fa...elays

this is all I can find. is it even worth doing this or should i fork out $70 for the new main relay? Thats if it is the main relay but than my ignition wont work at all, im just getting no spark. Which relay?

bb6_00

i just removed the relay. it looks perfectly fine. When i set the ignition to "on" it clicks once in the relay, once somewhere in the dash and once more on the relay than when i actually start the car it clicks one more time. I am assuming the relay is fine, it is soppose to be like this right?

I inspected all the solders and they were fine. Could a bad valve cover ground cause this from when i installed cam gears? I think if it were that it would be all the time and not when the engine is cold. I need help

should i resolder the relay anyway?

REDLUDE4WS

check your car for spark. pull out a wire and check it against a known ground and see if it zaps. go from there, this is a must do operation. cannot skip this step.

4WSi_guy

I dont have a Wiring diagram for a 5th gen, but in my 93 wiring diagram it shows the relay is fused with a 10 amp fuse, it says #4 fuse under dash. I dont know if they are the same, but if you have a diagram for your car and a volt meter, you can start to check for voltage at the relay.

97ludedude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by REDLUDE4WS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">check your car for spark. pull out a wire and check it against a known ground and see if it zaps. go from there, this is a must do operation. cannot skip this step. </TD></TR></TABLE> he already did that. . .
is your cel on? the only way I know how to test the crank pos sensor is to run live data with a GOOD scantool. It will come up and show the crank signal. It could also be the tdc sensor inside the distributor. If you have a friend with an h22 see if he will let you borrow his dizzy see if that fixes it.

gstrudler

Yeah, I was going to say check the dizzy too. Could be a bad ignitor or bad CYP. Worst case, trying swapping your ECU with a known good one. What happened when the car stopped working initially?

REDLUDE4WS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb6_00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but i was thinking more of the main relay since there is no spark leaving the coil with 2 differeent coils.</TD></TR></TABLE>
oops missed that one. well you guys have this covered so bye bye.

97ludedude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gstrudler &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Could be a bad ignitor or bad CYP. Worst case, trying swapping your ECU with a known good one. </TD></TR></TABLE> He did swap the ecu and ignitor is another word for ignition control module he swaped that too. (not trying to be an *** just pointing that out)

97ludedude

woops didn't swap the ecu. . . wrong thread my bad.

bb6_00

the car really didnt do anything only thing is that when its cold (75 degree ish) it wont start.

I had to put my battery to charge, it started to die from all that starting and picked up a scan tool from a friend. I know that as i soon as i try to start it the cel lights up, ill check it out in the morning. i thought a crank position sensor was cheap and i was gonna go pick one up, $216 + 7% tax....so im gonna make sure its bad before changing it, not like I did with the Ignition module.

I got a new fuel filter laying around, ill change it tommorow even though i highly doubt that would cause a no spark situation. If i have the part, why not do it.

thanks for the help, ill keep you updated, my comp has been on 24/7 these past days with the electronic helms open.

lude98SH

where are u measuring fuel pressure from, what gauge are you using ?

When checking for spark, I usually use the spark tester in one of the spark plug wires on a good ground. How exactly were u checking, i didnt understand in your description ?

Do you have voltage to the coil ? How much ? What is coil resistance ?

Do you have injector pulse ? Do you have voltage to the injectors ? Do you have fuel ?

You fuel pump sounds like it is priming correct ?

What is battery voltage ? Is the motor cranking normally ?

Check resistance of your grounds.

Let me know all that and maybe i can help you figure this out.

bb6_00

fuel pump sounds fine. im checking for spark using ground on plug wries and also checked for spark from distributor to wire, both nothing. battery voltage is around 12.4, motor cranks normally, visually all my grounds. I am measureing fuel pressure from the gauge I placed right on top of the fuel filter from when i install the regulator. It is at 40 psi right now.

voltage and resistance in coil, injectors, etc. i just verified how to do it on helms. ill put that on my to do list for tommorow morning right after running scanner.

TheJGB3

Problem with the immobilizer?

bb6_00

as far as i know my immobilizer was disabled, since i can turn the car on with any copy so i put in an after market alarm with immobilzer/anti-car jacking, etc. ill check it out. I just got up and was giving a last mintue check here.

bb6_00

usually the cel would come up after trying to start but this time it didnt, ran scanner anyway and got error p1259 manuf. control airfuel but when i look up honda codes online p1259 is vtec malfunction. I doubt a vtec malfunction would cause the engine not to spark, im sure it comes up because of the apex.

bb6_00

uninstalled apex.....nothing just no code now


just gave up, had a flat bed come pick it up and take it to a honda specialized mechanic

hoping its just the ecu, so i have a good excuse to swap to obd 1 and but a p28 with hondata s200 for $220 that im being offered on a local forum
Modified by bb6_00 at 3:50 PM 9/24/2008


Modified by bb6_00 at 4:07 PM 9/24/2008