Pullig

I just installed this cam yesterday and it didnt smoke with the stock cams and now it smokes like a train. It is a blue smoke and does it alot at idle. What could be my problem?

Hawkze_2.3

Sounds like timing or fuel...

InvaderTrax

What color smoke? And did you upgrade your valve train? They suggest better springs and retainers with the 272

flyrod

What is the lift at the valve on those cams? I think with the stock retainers you can only go about 0.400" before the retainers mash the valve seals.

Pullig

272 duration 205 @ .050 .371 lift they said all stock valvetrain was fine and im gettting a blue smoke seems to not smoke as bad once ive been driving around and the temperature is up but then wen i come park and let it idle for a few minutes it starts smokin more again.


I believe timing is dead on. It idles fine and the power is great to redline it pulls hard as hell now. So i wouldnt think that could be it.

InvaderTrax

Who did you talk to? When I talked to Scott at Delta he said that the 260 doesn't require any upgrades, but it's strongly recommended that you upgrade springs and retainers with the 272. Call back and ask

flyrod

I would guess valve seals (and possibly worn guides) are to blame. Unless it is really bad, I would just put oil in it and don't worry too much. Good luck...

Hawkze_2.3

Just FYI, stock specs are dur: 240, dur @ .050": 183, lift w/ 1.85: not sure on lift...

You might need to look into springs & retainers...wouldn't hurt anything regardless.


Modified by Hawkze_2.3 at 10:08 PM 1/3/2006

PirateMcFred

Where did you get those specs? if you got them from Crower they are wrong on the lift. The duration at .050 is pretty close though.

I got about .370" max lift at the valve on my stock H23 cams. I posted the specs I got in the Official Cam Thread. FYI the stock H23 retainer crushes the valve seal after .400 lift. Flyrod will corroborate.

I can dig up base circle and lobe height tonight. But I am SURE that .400+" lift is horrendously wrong for OEM spec H23 cams.

Pirate

flyrod

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pullig &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> seems to not smoke as bad once ive been driving around and the temperature is up but then wen i come park and let it idle for a few minutes it starts smokin more again. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you sucking oil into the intake manifold somehow? There would typically be less vacuum when driving vs. idle. Check the breather and PCV stuff maybe.

Pullig

today i ran it hard and my friends said when it was floored there was no smoke and a puff at shifts and then wen i came to a stop and let it idle..it started back smokin So i have no idea i guess i will just replace valve stem seals and hopefully be good there

Hawkze_2.3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where did you get those specs? if you got them from Crower they are wrong on the lift. The duration at .050 is pretty close though.

I got about .370" max lift at the valve on my stock H23 cams. I posted the specs I got in the Official Cam Thread. FYI the stock H23 retainer crushes the valve seal after .400 lift. Flyrod will corroborate.

I can dig up base circle and lobe height tonight. But I am SURE that .400+" lift is horrendously wrong for OEM spec H23 cams.

Pirate</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good info....I did get the specs from Crower. I'll change my post...

PirateMcFred

I took some more measurements from my stock cams last night.

Intake cam:
Base circle: 1.103"
Max measurement at lobe: 1.325"
Max lobe lift: .222"

Exhaust cam:
Base circle: 1.103"
Max measurement at lobe: 1.327"
Max lobe lift: .224"

So if you take .224" lobe lift and mulltiply it by Crower's published 1.85 rocker ratio you get .414" max lift. That's familiar huh?. Take out maybe .010" clearance for valve lash and that equates to .404" lift. At that lift the stock retainer kisses the valve seal. If you get any more lift then you have crushed seals or even if you over rev it gets messy.

If the max lift you can get out of the stock valvetrain is .400" and you stick to leaving .030" clearance for everything as a rule of thumb then you are pretty much limited to .370" total lift. And strangely enough that is real close to what I measured just before I switched to the Crower cams. Although I am now interested in degreeing my Crower cams to see if it is the same as the spec card that uses the 1.85 rocker ratio. Damn Crower says that their stage one cams go to .440" lift and is okay to run stock springs and retainers. I seriously doubt that they are actually .440" lift at the valve. Okay, I guess I have to degree my H23 cams. That will take a while... dammit.

Sorry for the Hijack Pullig. Just thinking out loud. What's your compression numbers on your motor Pullig? Everything good?

Pirate





Modified by PirateMcFred at 7:47 AM 1/4/2006

Pullig

last time i checked about a few months ago it was around 180 no more than 185 and no less than 175

Pullig

changed out my valve stem seals every exhaust seal was chewed to hell and only 1 or 2 intake was chewed some. It now does not smoke but im having a damn problem with my idle. I cannot get it to idle down for ****. The idle screw is all the way in cable loose as can be. Its surging between 1500-2000...

flyrod

vacuum leak. Pirate posted some interesting info on getting his "H" series to idle.

Pullig

i remember reading that post could someone help me find it ?


Modified by Pullig at 8:00 PM 1/15/2006

Pullig

i pulled the valve cover off today just to see if everything was ok and i found another problem all of the exhaust valve stem seals looked fucked up and i just replaced them WTF and all the intake seals are looking good. WHats up with these cams?

InvaderTrax

We told you. The 272 requires a valve train upgrade. At .400 lift the stock retainer crushes the valve stem seal. Call Delta and ask for yourself

Pullig

i believe that now but i asked them and they said stock valvetrain is fine.

InvaderTrax

Not sure if he still has them, but email lemon_ice_4u@hotmail.com and ask if he still has his H23 valve train parts. I believe he had upgraded springs and titanium retainers for cheap