seklze

well ill know more options when i take it apart i suppose at worst it has 55mm mains and ill measure up some h23 wrist pins, if they differ i guess i can run a1 rods.. or get them machined to fit... or if mine look real nice maybe ill run them on a mild tune a while.

any input on good resources for a good used head or rockers/followers and cam??

Sparksman

Find some oem rockers, they work fine. Just get new bronze guides, and seats from supertech. Then new dual rate springs and retainers, its best to match springs and retainer brands.

Find out what rod/crank/piston combo you are going to run before you think of cams. Are you going to have a low or high end engine?

seklze

Right now, I'm building it stock, maybe get it tuned. I'm going to save and sleeve it before turbo more than likely. Looking at gasket sets.

Oddly enough fel pro offers 2 for the preludes, the 96 sivtec head gasket set is a little cheaper. But the part number and cost is defferent on the set for a 97 base...

Conversion gasket sets are the same part #

Any ideas on whats different?? Felpros site doesn't really have a break down of what is in each set. Just that it has all the required gaskets unless noted

dagle

iTrader: (1)

H22A1 are closed deck and H22A4 are open deck.

I had them side by side before and didn't see any significant differences. The H22A1's oil return orifice is different, but is easily remedied by cutting it.

seklze

Is there no way to know ahead of time without pulling off the head if mine will be open or closed deck judging by the date stamp on it being 7/96.... I like having and laying out what I can before tearing into an engine... I know if I'll need machining/sleeves there'll be plenty of time but if it is okay.... I can re ring it and set the ring gaps and put it back together and have it ready to go...

If I had to guess probably open deck, any thoughts??

dagle

iTrader: (1)

Do you have an H22A1 or H22A4?

H22A1 = closed deck
H22A4 = open deck

EDIT: nm i forgot you got a JDM...

Look for stamps on the block, if it states P13, you most likely have a closed deck. If you have P5M's everywhere, you probably have an open deck. Outside of that, I'm not sure how to tell. 96' is indicative of a closed deck though.

seklze

My block is rocking the p13 stamps all over the place. Interesting, all the info I find says they went to 55mm mains in 97 and plenty still had 50mm mains till 98..

If a block has 55mm mains will it be open deck? Or is there some oddball closed deck motors w/55mm mains?
Slightly off topic but not really, I'm more curious now just to have the know....

Also ive read a few places that it wasn't till 94 they went to frm... Anybody able to verify that?? If it were true wouldn't everyone and their mothers be chasing them down for the ability to run forged without sleeving??

spoolinlude

From what I've seen all "H" motors have FRM.

My 1993 motor did. Both of them.

riceball777

I have had great luck with the mahle frm pistons for my s2000.

JRCivic1

Here are a few bits of knowledge:


ALL H22A1/A4 blocks are FRM regardless of the year. The baby cousin F20B is the only steel lined sleeve block in the family.

It is generally accepted that the change from 50mm main bearings to 55mm main bearings occurred beginning in model year 1998, but there are examples contradicting this within 6 months plus or minus that date. My suggestion: If you are working on a '97 or '98 model year block, check the main bearing size before ordering.

H23A cranks are 50mm, so you must have a 50mm main journal H22A1(or '97-early '98 H22A4) block to use the "stroker" crank.

Installation height is different between the H22 and H23 pistons, so be careful when mix-matching.

Head gasket dimpling is different between the closed deck and open deck blocks. Although the passages are all similar, it is this "squish" area which originally appears raised that is different. It is not generally accepted to interchange gaskets between blocks because of the possibility of coolant intrusion through the surface topography. This is why the gasket kits you have researched differ in part number and price.

H22A1 and H22A4 rods use the same bearings... the only difference is the pin fitment. The A1 (P13) rod is a press fit, the A4 (P5M) rod utilizes a floating pin.

Using a H23 piston in a newer H22A4 can be done, but you would have to use the P13 rod, or re-bush the pin end of the P5M rod which would be costly.

seklze

Whew sorry to bring this back from the dead but now I'm actually in the middle of it all, a few updates on what I have here....


I have new followers from a rebuilt cyl head I picked up.

My motor is an open deck, WITH 50mm mains.. I guess I have a real b@$tard h22.

The cylinders walls look super nice but you can easily feel a ridge at the top of the cylinders, not so much on 3/4 but most obvious on 1 and definitely noticeable on 2.

Right now I'm waiting for funds for a few parts before getting it to the machine shop.. I'm thinking oversize by .25mm using type s pistons from Nippon. And then I'll see if they can gave me the dimensions of the motor so I know what size bearings to go with... A big issue I've been having is not having good measuring equipment to keep within the specs I wanna be in.

What's nice is the block is straight b bores on all cylinders so if I can get some precise measurements there's a chance I can just go with standard bores and just get the ridges honed out...

Oh randomly my number 3 rod bearing is pretty worn, all the rest of the bearings look pretty good, that one though doesn't even wanna stay in the rod when I boxed them for storage altogether.

Oh and they are floating style wrist pins so the motor has the newer p13 rods, newer open deck style casting but for some reason they maintained the 50mm mains.

Thanks for the answer on the head gasket. Some issues with work and housing put this on hold for a while but I really can't wait to have her back on the road in the next few months.

If anyone has questions I'll try to keep this up to date.
How long have you been running these at this point? I'd be interested in an update.

Aradin

If your H22 block requires a hone and/or bore, I HIGHLY recommend you look around for a good shop who has experience with the FRM material. Most of them do not and will do more harm than good. Look around for shops that have experience with Porsche engines and they will know what to do. There is a special procedure and special equipment required that most machine shops are ignorant to. FRM is supposed to have a totally smooth, dull gray appearance when done correctly.

For reference, I worked with a machine shop for years that just "bored and honed" the FRM material like an iron sleeve block and the engines ALWAYS came back with issues in a very short period of time. Eventually the shop would recommend iron sleeve replacements for the block and then they would have no issues after that. They would always swear it was installer error, the wrong rings used, or an abused engine which was total crap but they didn't mind since they were getting paid for labor 2-3 times on the same block.

seklze

I've been talking to a shop in broomall that says to have some experience playing with it on both the Honda and the porshes... I live near the Philly area there's a bunch around here, I'm curious, does anyone know now what kind of p2w clearance mahle rec'ds? I wonder if a lot of the horror storys are just poor installation/ machining or people trying to literally just install them on a block they pulled apart and are tossing back together without getting clearances checked..


So this is how I'm thinking of putting it all together..
-Mahle 11.5 gold pistons standard bore, get the motor honed and clearances checked. My motor is all b bore so it's actually a little under 87mm.
-eagle H-beam connecting rods
-oe bearings(new)
-Crower stage 2 cams (maybe a custom grind with stage 2 idle lobes?)
- Crower chromoly valve retainer kit w/springs
-port matched otherwise oe head freshly redone w/ supertech valves(JDM)
-70mm TB
-470cc-500ish injectors, undecided on what brand to get yet.
-fidanza lightweight flywheel
-exedy stage 2 clutch (thick)
-full 3 inch exhaust, high flow cat + vibrant resonator, stealth muffler.


That is the rough outline I think I'd like to go with.. I believe with proper install the mahles should work fine with the OE sleeves. I want to have some good top end but I still want to keep it semi-streetable so that's why I'm thinking of not going more than stage 2 aggressive on the idle lobes.
Also looking at a phearable ecu for tuning. Still looking around for a reputable tuner in the area.

I would love to get 240-250whp in the end.