spray004

I did a H22A swap into my '97 Prelude. I converted over to OBD1 with TD-60U distributor. For the life of me, I cannot get the engine to start. It cranks over just fine. I will get a little sputter like it wants to start after 10-15 seconds of cranking but nada. I have compression (220-230psi), I have spark and I have fuel. I have sanded and cleaned every ground wire and added 3 more wires. I'm completely stumped. Here is a list of things I've done/tried/converted/tested.

• P13 & P28 ECUs
• All grounds are connected and sanded. I've added 3 extra grounds. All ground wires have between .01V-.03V which is below the 1V factory specs.
• New cap, coil, plugs, rotor. Wires are from a running car and test out within spec.
• Timing is dead on, cam arrows are up, timing mark on flywheel is up, rotor is @ #1
• OBD1 injectors. Resistor box ohms at 6.2. Power to injectors, power at injector wires at ECU. Fuel pump primes
• Main relay tests fine (checked twice)
• MAP & TPS are hooked up correctly. Both came from my H22A4 that ran (minus bad rod) just a few months ago.
• CKP, CYP & TDC sensors all have continuity. I de-pinned the TDC & CKP factory harness and re-pinned in the OBD1 connector
• I have no CEL's. The CEL won't even light up for 2 seconds. I have power to the cluster and I have continuity from plug to ECU.
• I checked every fuse visually and with a multimeter
• Fresh gas & new fuel filter

Any ideas????? I'm pretty knowledgeable but I'm baffled on this one. I've looked at every forum possible about swaps and not starting.

v4lu3s

If your CEL is not lighting up for the 2 seconds at startup you have a problem there, possibly a bad bulb is where i would start.

spray004

I finally got the CEL light to come on for 2 seconds. One of the contact prongs on the connector was bent down and wasn't making contact on the copper strips of the cluster.

The CEL comes on and goes off. I plugged a jumper into the service connector and it lights up and stays solid. I've read conflicting information on this. I've read that since my CEL isn't on then the solid light just means no codes. I've also read that a solid light means code 0 which is the ecu of course. Both of my ECU's had the same results, solid light but I don't have a CEL light on prior to jumping the connector.

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

Your ecu's are fine that is normal to have a solid CEL when jumping the blue service connector, just means that there are no codes stored at that time. I would check to make sure you are getting fuel at the rail, and check timing while your at it. As well as is your TD60U dizzy OEM or a china made one? Do you have an alarm on your prelude is it an aftermarket one? Sorry I am just asking to rule this out as an issue.

spray004

I've got fuel at the rail, the injectors spray at least something and my timing is dead on. Its the OEM distributor. The TDC, CYP & CKP all test fine for continuity and resistance. I don't have an alarm. Its a race car so all of the non needed stuff is gone.

I'm going to replace the injectors for the hell of it although I don't think its the problem. It has to be something very odd ball & screwy. If I crank it for 10-15 seconds it'll start to sputter like it wants to crank. So either it's not getting enough fuel or the spark isn't hot enough. The coil, cap, rotor & plugs are new. The wires are new looking and test out within spec for resistance.

spray004

Well I've replaced the injectors and distributor and still nada. I was able to get code #8 last night after replacing the distributor with a brand new one. I've checked the TDC wires from the distributor clip to the ECM clips a couple weeks ago. Both wires had continuity. I'm going to check again this weekend.

holmesnmanny

The code 8 means however you did the factory distributor wiring it was wrong.

You would be best just keeping it stock obd2 and swapping over your oil pump.

spray004

The wiring is right, unless all the wiring diagrams on the internet are wrong.

The reason I was getting the TDC code is because the drive key on the distributor was sheared off and the rotor wasn't turning. I'm not sure what could have sheered the key off a brand new (not a reman) distributor in less than five minutes. It spun freely when I installed it and there is not damage inside from it being in a bind.

I'm not going to spend another $300 and pull the engine just to convert to the OBD2 set up and have the same issue.

spray004

So after digging some more, I'm 99% sure the reason why the drive keys on the new distributor sheared off, is because it was installed 180 degrees off. From what I read, if the drive key is off by 180 degrees off, it is hard to install and it will shear the key because of the offset. Does anyone have a picture of which side the offset should be if the rotor is pointing at the #1 cap post?

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

They only go in one way. The dizzy will fit into the cam perfectly and snugly. I am lost do you have a picture on what you are referring to so we all can better assist you?

v4lu3s

the distributor will slide right in if it is aligned correctly, if you feel ANY pressure besides that of the o ring it is backwards. i usually just look at the end of the cam and the spin the distributor to match. Its very obvious to my eye whch side the offset is on.

holmesnmanny

I have never heard of anyone breaking their distributor because of not installing it the offset way. Someone must really have to jam it in there to do that, I just can't see how someone could and not think something is wrong.

spray004

It didn't feel that it was hard to put in. It was the same as my other distributor or maybe a tad bit harder since the o-ring was newer. I wasn't installing it backwards. I had #1 at TDC and the rotor was pointing to the #1 cap post.

I went back and looked at my original distributor and the drive key was installed correctly on the new distributor so that wasn't the reason why it sheared off. If you're looking directly at the drive key, with the rotor at the #1 cap post, the key sits off to the left. The machined notch on the drive key is to the right and lines up with the machined grove on the right side of the distributor housing. Maybe it was just a bad casting? My replacement distributor will be here today so we'll see how that goes.

98vtec

generally speaking, the distributor usually works or it doesnt. I cant think of one thing that would allow it to intermittently fire like you are describing unless you are flooding the cylinder so much that you eventually have enough fuel during a post firing event that it tries to fire but on the wrong stroke.




and as stupid as it may sound, make sure the injector connectors are on the right injector.

spray004

I agree, that's why it's so baffling. The injectors are firing and they're plugged in the correct order. I've seen them firing into cups. I've replaced them with new, not rebuilt ones so they shouldn't be hanging up. The plugs are dry and sooty after trying to crank for a while. When I put on the new distributor it sputtered constantly and not intermittently before it sheared the key off. Maybe the new one coming today will solve it all.

I haven't cut into a single wire for the sensors in the distributor. I depinned and repinned them into the distributor plug. I've even checked the shielding grounds for the wires and I have continuity to the ground wire by the thermostat housing. I started to think something came undone and was causing signal interference.

My plug wires are in the correct order. I'm going to put a timing light on it tonight if it doesn't fire off and see where #1 is firing. Although I don't think it's off, if my timing belt was off just one tooth, would it cause a no fire? I would think that it would at least crank but run rough.

spray004

It started up last night with the replacement new distributor. I'm guessing something was either wrong with one of the reluctors or one of the sensors was giving intermittent signals. The TDC, CYP & CKP all had 384 ohms and the ICM tested okay per the Honda manual. Just one of those things I suppose? If anyone is looking for a cap, rotor and coil for a TD60 distributor, I've all got three for sale, never used!