yohan

ok, im out of town missed shift into 3rd cuz of m2s4 3rd gear grindage. vehicle has 230k but some body issues... I dont want to put much cash into it, i have it parked at a new friends house 5hours drive from my home.. because its f22b i dont think an h23 head will mate w oil passages..

can i potentially pull the head replace the bent valves and slap it back together in a semi reasonable running condition? i have a 96 srv parts car w 300k on it that runs so i could swap in that engine if i cant hack it.

not looking for the "right way" to do it with mating the seats etc, looking for cheap, dirty, side-of-road fix.

looking forward to your feedback!

yohan

no action on this thread, need to search the net hard because im not finding good detail on the block...

i think easiest is to pull the head and replace it direct bolt on with an h23 head... i just dont know 100% if i need to plug any oil / coolent passages.

i could get one from a bone yard, bring it with slap it on in a day party with the people whose property its on and drive it home next day....

question in my mind, what else potentially could be the issue before i throw $100 at this head....

snobordboy

Honestly, the fastest way to do it would be to swap the head if they are compatible.

I would start with pulling the head on your car, as it needs to come out for whatever you do.

Take the head gasket to the junkyard with you, and pull the other head and compare the passages, the gaskets should be the same.

If they match up, just slam the junkyard head on and hope for the best.

Hopefully it will run and get you home, then drop that H22 in there!

v4lu3s

afaik the f22b dohc and h23a non vtec heads are identical.

yohan

I did a LOT of searching, the bore of the h23a1 is 87mm and f22b is 85 .. Passages match up, read i t up on cb7 forums saw pics.. One member had all 3 engines and heads and advised one person to toss the h23 head on and call it a day.. Cams are higher longer lift so will get a bperformance bump too.. Just need f22b head gasket and I'm rocking.. Unless something else is messed w the block..

I rotated crank, didn't feel any clunk, timings not slipped.. Cams are straight up at tdc ( put a socket extension in cyl1 and rotated crank) it has compression in one or 2 cyls because it will start but dies and backfires immediately.

I'll grab the bolts out of the block at the yard, get a f22b head gasket..loadup my tools slap it on and party with my new back country friends heh.. Here's hoping

yohan

Alright, after much more research ...

F22B gasket is the one to use, can't use H23A1 gasket because the bore of the H23 (87mm) is larger and will mess the crush of the F22B (85mm).

This thread tells the info, at the bottom shows the gasket sitting on f22 block and on h23 head.

F22B JDM DOHC Rebuild Kit????? - Honda Prelude Forum : Honda Prelude Forums

will add some permatex spray and in the photo's, bottom left of the head I will fill in the overlapping blank recess with hondabond.

holmesnmanny

Normally jdm's have such low mileage it might be worth it just to replace the valves. I'm normally on the side of just dropping in another engine but when you pull the head you can have it tested to see if you can just pick up some new valves.

It's up to you.

yohan

It's a cost thing... There's some issues with the body, front doesn't line up right gaps around headlights from front end collision, cracks in the paint above rear fender wells from previous repair and its a custom color with hella pearl so not sure it can be matched..

I'm at least $300 for a tow so since I don't love the car, bang for buck I slap on a h23 head for $90 and call it a day..

sublimeluder

Hi sorry to here your problems. Cheapest fix would be to simply replace bent valves and headgasket. That's a lot of miles on head. A valve job is always recommend. However if your valve seats are not to pitted. Just buy some permatex valve compound and lap valves. Be sure to inspect piston top also.

PirateMcFred

The h23 head will "fit," 300k is a lot of miles though, The oil return passages on the timing side won't line up very well. Some permatex in the corners after degreasing will help but it'll probably weep a little over time (compare gaskets to the H23 head for an obvious fit-check). It will "work" for short term get-it-back-home duty where you can work on it at your leisure.

The difference between 85mm bore and 87mm head gasket can be bypassed by using an F23 head gasket from a 1998-2002 Accord DX. The oil/coolant passages should line up alright.

In the meantime I'd look for a junk H23 head to salvage the valves and refurbish the F22B head. Valve job and a hot-tank would be the best long-term solution besides the obvious H22A swap.

Sounds like you could use some work on the gearbox too, if it's grinding to the point it causes a money shift.

Hope you figure it out. but the H23 head swap should be very straight forward. Like an hour to pull the head, a little longer to get the H23 back on there.

-P

yohan

pirate, thanks so much for your confirming this - you carry a lot of credibility on here with g hybrids.

the h22 has 300k (my parts car) dont want to reuse any of those engine parts really.. so given i can use the h23 head thats def the easiest route. this affected car has 229 on the shell, unknown on f22b

ive had quite a bit of time now to mull over my options and luckily 2 bb2ks have shown up in local yards, a friend was passing by back to my city and grabbed my tools from the car so i will order intake and head gasket, get some copper permatex spray, degrease and hondabond the h23 outlet with comparing it from the f23 gasket (do i for sure use f23 gasket vs f22b gasket? .. then again one i seen on ebay lists both engines)

i will redo the f22 head, or who knows maybe plant an h22 head .. just looking forward to gettin this beast back on the road...

will keep this thread up to date with pics etc.

yohan

Playing devils advocate with myself..... What else might be wrong?

I saw the tach hit over 7000...it sounded like something shattered in the engine, high low I don't know.. I read another thread of a person who overrevved and blew a piston so want to make sure I'm playing the right odds.. 5 hrs drive is a long way to go to be wrong

This doubt comes from a person my dad talked to that "works for Honda" that stated if timing isn't off valves shouldnt be bent,,,,

PirateMcFred

If something "shattered" then that sounds a lot worse than the old-fashioned bent-valve money shift. I think that the stock valvetrain should easily handle 7000 rpm as that's almost the factory redline.

Pull the spark plugs and rotate the engine by hand. Check that the timing marks line up (the works-for-honda dude is right) and that it turns over freely. If you have bent valves your lash will be very loose on the affected cylinders as the valve head(s) will not be on the valve seat(s).

If it turns over easily by hand you can try a compression test. If you have good, even compression then it's not the valves.

If when rotating it by hand it binds, then remove all the lash from the rockers and see if it's freed up at all. With all the lash removed it should be a free-running motor. If it's still bound up then it could be a lot worse. You might be able to use a bright, small flashlight to see what's going on through the exhaust ports as it's usually minor surgery to pull the top half of the manifold. Otherwise, I'd either pull the head or the pan and see if it's a broken piston or rod. If there's a lot of metalic trash in the oil it's probably a bottom end problem.

I would not install an H22 head just to get it running unless you're absolutely desperate to get it moving. You need all the H22 timing cogs including a water pump gear that needs to be pressed on. You're asking for complications.

For limping home you could probably reuse the F22B head gasket if you clean it up real well and copper it.

-P

yohan

yea I'm with on all of the above, first thing I did was pull spark plug out of cylinder 1, (not all 4) and rotated the crank, it felt normal as I did a full rotation, I did check timing and the cam gears were both pointed straight up at TDC ... I took a pic of the cams with the valve cover off and almost looks as if i'm 1 tooth off .. the belt does have full tension on both sides of the gears though... (see attached)

The more I think about this the more I'm thinking a round drip on a u-haul dolly so I can get it close to me to work on seems to make the most sense.. hrm.

This is not at TDC by the way, I rotated the crank to TDC and the arrows were pointing straight up .. Was losing daylight at that time and obviously feeling a bit frantic so..

holmesnmanny

Have you compression tested at all yet ?

How was it driving exactly ?

sublimeluder

What exactly happened and why do u think u bent a valve? The only way a valve could bend by over revving is if u snapped Timing belt, timing belt slipped or dropped a valve. A dropped valve would be easily noticed. Did the car smoke when u heard breaking sound or did check engine light come on and car died. Will car run at all?

sublimeluder

Recheck timing marks and make sure all arrows line up crank gear arrow and cam gear arrows. If it's ok I'd check compression. let us know whatcha find.

yohan

ok, so the story goes... i towed it home .. $200 in fuel $80 for rental..

finally took time to look at it last night cuz junkyard has 50% off this week....

screw fell out of rotor, that was the shattering.. new cap n rotor im driving again.

holmesnmanny

Moral of the story to everyone that reads this thread, don't do like the OP and not compression test before assuming the worst.

A simple compression test will rule out engine damage.

yohan

Holmesmany, which is why I opted to tow it home.. Compression check was OK, had I checked for spark would have derived this solution earlier... Also would have derived it if I worked on the car before getting hammered

snobordboy

<p>Haha I was wondering that when I saw your text, but the wife was bugging me so I didn't have time to respond.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Looks like more time to plan an H22 rebuild. Have you checked the compression on the H22 yet?</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

98vtec

snobordboy

<p></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Haha I guess more precisely the wife was rushing me to stop doing anything else and hold the kiddo, so that she could finally have a break. <img alt="Tongue" src="https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emsmilep.gif" style="height:12px; width:12px" title="Tongue" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p>