BeyondTheCompetition

Ok I am stuck. I finished an install of a 98 USDM h22a4 into my 97 (US) Prelude base model after spinning a bearing in the old motor. This used motor came with no distributer or crank pulley, so I bought a used dizzy with coil and crank from a salvage yard. I replaced the coil, cap and rotor with new parts. I am running a Skunk2 intake manifold, AEM fuel rail and pressure regulator. New fuel filter (not leaking).

The engine turns over with no problems but will not start. I have checked that every connector on the engine harness is connected (98 engine harness into the 97 vehicle- don't know if there is a difference). Fuel pump starts for 2 seconds when ignition is turned on. Pressure on AEM gauge on fuel rail reads full pressure (40lbs) then quickly falls to zero. Is this normal if engine is not running? The Helms states to attach a gauge in the same spot on the stock fuel rail, and states it should read 40-47 lbs. Do these types of gauges lock a pressure reading? Or is my fuel regulator losing pressure? (Within 5 seconds back to 0).

Removing a spark plug, I do smell fuel on the plug. My plug wires are all showing resistance to spec. Is it safe to pull a plug, attach the plug wire, and hold it to a ground to check for spark as you do in older vehicles?

If timing was slightly off (cant check until I get the motor started) would this keep the engine from firing? (It doesnt even try to fire up).

I never removed the ECM or cabin harness and haven't touched anything not directly associated with pulling the motor out and putting it back in. Is a 97 ECM compatible with a 98 motor?

All fuses are good... Voltage is at proper level....Engine grounds are connected... Examined and tried all I know and could find in the Helm's. Would getting a code reader help if the engine has never been started with this ECM? (Engine light stays on when ignition is on. I bought this car with a bad motor (for a great deal regardless) and drove it 20 miles before it spun a bearing, so I have no working knowledge of what is normal for a Prelude. Never owned one. Owned 2 Civics before this. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated from the experienced members of this forum.

(Tried to be as descriptive as possible to show what I've done and knowledge level)

marks_lude

you can attach a wire spark the plug to the engine block, wont hurt anything. insulate ur hand because it can shock u thru the wire.


check the basics, make sure ur injector relay box it plugged in. in 4th gens it up in the corner closest to the driver in engine bay. small silver box with fins. its easy to forget after a swap.

also make sure the wires are on the dizzy in the right order.

Acidcrakker

COmpression test

BeyondTheCompetition

Wires on the dizzy 1-3-4-2 starting with top right and going clockwise. Im waiting for a roomy to come home to sit the vehicle to start it while I check for spark. Every connector checked...

BeyondTheCompetition

Compression test. A good, yet terrifying idea. The place I bought it from says it was and that they warranty the start up, but you cant trust anyone. I'll get on it... thx

FlyingDaggers

i had the same issued too.....

everything from firing..to fuel..to compression tested good.....fuel injectors excellent....no blown fuses....no leftover connections....oil...coolant....but..last thing i check was timing.....timing on exhaust was off by 3 teeth....it turns and turns...didn't start...plugs are flooded....so re work on timing...faulty auto tensioner....<U></U>

now it starts..... so check timing....take off the valve cover...and middle and lower timing belt cover...and check for TDC and BDC...if everything on ur engine is good..then that's ur last thing u wanna check for....TIMING<U></U>

vlang29

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BeyondTheCompetition &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The place I bought it from says it was and that they warranty the start up, but you cant trust anyone. </TD></TR></TABLE>

AMEN

got my H22A from osaka, claimed to have been compression and leakdown tested.. had 30 day startup warranty, but i didn't have room in the garage to start anything for about 3 months..

I pulled the head, and cyl. 4 was about 1/4" below TDC, when cyl 1 was TDC.. The rod bearing was completely burnt and GONE!!!

Proves that it obviously hadn't had the compression checked.. And, of course, there wasn't JACK that I could do, since it wasn't within the 30 day period...

I don't mean to scare you, but make sure you get on it quick, within the 30 day period!

BeyondTheCompetition

Compression test checked out @ 155, 170, 170, 155 (psi). Whew. New is 185; service limit is 135...so I think Im good as far as that goes....

By the way, I did the compression test at wide open throttle position, but the injectors still ran, and put plenty of gas into the cylinders. Apparently my ECM doesnt have a flood fuel map for WOT? or is it a possibility I have bad injectors?


Modified by BeyondTheCompetition at 5:25 PM 3/17/2008


Modified by BeyondTheCompetition at 5:27 PM 3/17/2008


Modified by BeyondTheCompetition at 5:30 PM 3/17/2008

BeyondTheCompetition

Exhaust and intake cams are lined up to the tooth, and match crank TDC..... (Manual tensioner conversion)


Modified by BeyondTheCompetition at 5:26 PM 3/17/2008

BeyondTheCompetition

The vehicle has been sitting four months with half a tank of 87 unleaded fuel...(didnt know about 92 octane fuel at that time). The fuel should be good enough to at least start the car right?

Acidcrakker

Those are pretty shitty numbers 135 is where the motor is junked. H22 right?? Arent they 235 right out of Honda?

It should still start with those numbers GL though

Acidcrakker

Try a gallon of 93 and 2 bottles of Octane booster. 4 months is a long time.

BeyondTheCompetition

drain the tank first, or add to existing?

lude98SH

i doubt its ur fuel. I dont think 4 months will cause the car not to run at all. I personally would drain your fuel and refill it but I dont think it is the reason your car is not starting.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BeyondTheCompetition &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wires on the dizzy 1-3-4-2 starting with top right and going clockwise. Im waiting for a roomy to come home to sit the vehicle to start it while I check for spark. Every connector checked...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you looking at it from in the car. Because look at the helms page 4-17 for the firing order. I think you might have them on backwards because the picture is actually upside down from how it is in the car. Ive done this like 3 times before when I wasnt paying attention. Double check hopefully thats your problem.


Also you should hold fuel pressure after you let the fuel pump prime. It shouldnt bleed off much at all. If your loosing pressure then check for leaks on the fuel, injectors, or possible fauly diaphram in your FPR.

FlyingDaggers

well.....u said h22---is it h22a??? they say that its jdm h22a imported from japan right??

ur compressions are pretty bad....mine comes at 225-235psi.....check them again....seems like ur compressions are way off----

87 octane won't kill the engine---the performance of the engine will just run like crap.....no gain at floored pedal....

"""Wires on the dizzy 1-3-4-2 starting with top right and going clockwise"""

wire suppose to be 3-4-1-2 and then ur pick up coil in the middle....

you got ur plug wires in the wrong hole on the dizzy----


Modified by FlyingDaggers at 4:49 PM 3/17/2008

BeyondTheCompetition

Its a h22a4 from a usdm 98 prelude. Helms says factory new spec is 185 psi. I am assuming that this is because the piston compression is 9.5 to 1. They upped it in 99. Tomorrow weather permitting, I will drain the fuel and clear out the lines. Maybe its the FPR cause it immediately drops to 0 (3 sec maybe) after the fuel pump cuts off after the 2 sec ignition start. It is the AEM one....still have a stock one laying around...I'll try that. Spark is perfect on all cylinders. Anyone experienced an injector stuck open before?

lude98SH

no 1-3-4-2 is the firing order that is the correct oder in the dizzy I just think he may be looking at it backwards.

No he said an h22a4, no an h22a. And yes those compression numbers arent amazing but that isnt your problem with the car not starting.

lude98SH

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BeyondTheCompetition &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its a h22a4 from a usdm 98 prelude. Helms says factory new spec is 185 psi. I am assuming that this is because the piston compression is 9.5 to 1. They upped it in 99. Tomorrow weather permitting, I will drain the fuel and clear out the lines. Maybe its the FPR cause it immediately drops to 0 (3 sec maybe) after the fuel pump cuts off after the 2 sec ignition start. It is the AEM one....still have a stock one laying around...I'll try that. Spark is perfect on all cylinders. Anyone experienced an injector stuck open before?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats funny because I actually just had that problem with an aem FPR. Im sending it back. I switched back to the OEM FPR and it holds pressure just fine. I would def try swapping them.

BeyondTheCompetition

WELL I"LL BE DAMNED! That diagram in the Helms IS upside down!!!! I cant believe I missed that!!!

Acidcrakker

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BeyondTheCompetition &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WELL I"LL BE DAMNED! That diagram in the Helms IS upside down!!!! I cant believe I missed that!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ill keep my fingers crossed for you that that was your issue.

lude98SH

lol yea ive done that a few times. and sat there for like an hour trying to figure out why my car wouldnt start. I hope that is your issue

BeyondTheCompetition

Started right up. Engine sounds great. Fidanza flywheel, Skunk2 manifold really makes a difference! The oil light came on after a few minutes, and realized i need another 1.5 quarts of oil... hopefully thats all it is and not the oil pump. I'll work on it tomorrow. Thanks guy for all your wisdom! This forum is awesome

lude98SH

nice man im glad it worked out.

BeyondTheCompetition

You know your Helm's bro If the fuel is right on spec at engine idle, but loses pressure so quickly with engine off, think I should still get rid of the AEM FPR? Funny seeing your AEM did the same thing...wonder if they are designed to release pressure with no fuel pumping through it...

lude98SH

hmm it shouldnt loose pressure, it should hold it. It will bleed off eventually but not as your decribing. Mine was running at 30psi out of the box. I would personally just run the OEM one and then look at your fuel pressure and make sure it holds pressure. Let us know what you find.