4naccord

Long story short; just purchased a BB2 with H23, and sitting another H22 with a head full of JDM goodies. The original plan was just another H22 type s build but with getting the H23 in the BB2, why not go with the larger throw. I am not building this to be a strip/street terror, just a nice DD, for now.
Here is the set-up:
95' H22 USDM head
Type S cams, with JUN cam gears
Type S pistons (still need)
92' H23 block, crank and rods
DC Sports 4-2-1 header
H22 Venom Intake Manifold
Skunk2 TB
P13 w/VAFC or I can go P28 w/S300
AEM 3" CAI gen 1 or gen 2 with bypass valve

I understand most of my parts are little aged, but all were working parts when I pulled them off of other various builds (all personal builds) and that better options may have presented themselves. So would I better off with an H series Skunk2 manifold or the K series manifold and adapter? Can the P13 w/VAFC get this essentially lightly modified set-up running well? I would rather save the S300 for another build I have in mind.

I am also looking for the JDM 1 piece BLACK headlights for the BB2, anyone have a set they are willing to part with or know where I can get some rather quickly? I am currently parting out an CD5 as well if anyone needs something off of one; just pm me. Thanks for any and all replies the Hive can provide me with.

H22Honda98

I can't speak on the k series mani, but the skunk2 is nothing but very top end gains. If this is a DD and just a car to put around town in with the occasional ******* diving, id personally use the euro r and enjoy the mid range gains.

Id drop the idea of using a vafc altogether. Can you use it? Sure, maybe, but do you really want to put real money into a frankenbuild and not tune it? you would surely be much happier with a real tune,even if it's on crome or ectune, which are far cheaper than hondata, and will leave you miles ahead of a crappy vafc "tune".

4naccord

The Euro-R would be very nice, finding one can be a chore, not that I'm against looking for one while this build takes place. Seeing the K series possibility intrigues me, figured someone here had perhaps used it already, particularly the Civic and Integra owners. I did ask Skunk2 and they just said go with the K but no real reason as to why.

I'm not really looking for crazy numbers out of this thing, just a little better than what Honda offered from the factory. Since this is technically just copying a factory Honda build, sans Type S parts. I figured my aftermarket parts have since been bettered by other designs, companies; thought mine could act as poor replacements for the JDM/Euro pieces. Thought that as long as I shift at H23 redline and not H22 the P13/VAFC could at minimum get me to the tuner, hours drive away.

I have seen others use OEM CD rear lips on the BB2/4, I'm sitting on a couple sets; is there a DIY here about it? Would also like to use the CD skirts, anyone do this?

H22Honda98

If you're talking about just driving to a tuner and taking it easy then go for it

I just wouldn't make it a permanent thing. What you're building isn't the same as an h23a.

I guess I just err on the side of caution when I put real time into something like this. Theres so much information out there today and so many resources to do it safely, I just can't imagine skimming on a couple hundred bucks when we're talking about reliability and drivability....2 very important parts of all this.

Idk if rosko still sells euro r Manis but id start there if you wanted one

snobordboy

I would be concerned about exhaust valve clearance with the type-s pistons and the cam profile on those rods. Get a set of the H23A rods to bring the piston down in the hole more, or go with a different piston i.e. Mahles.

Tuning wise, the vafc may work, but a good tune on S300 would be leaps and bounds better, especially if you play with cam gears, the ability to adjust timing is needed.

Get a better header and bigger TB to let the 95mm stroke breathe. My engine was that size, and hardly gained anything when I went from jdm cams to Pro1 cams. Once I went from stock tb and im to a ported out im and 76mm tb, and from ebay header to Logic/Highend, the gains were huge, the amount of air the engine pulls when it has it available is insane.

On the same idea with the airflow, bigger injectors will be needed. Once I upped my airflow, my jdm H22 injectors were tapped out on the low end lobes, couldn't even try vtec tuning.

ojasia

Dont assume, If you have a question best bet is to research it. 100x over it has been asked more then once, and then sift through every answer and see what correlates the most (helps for me to make a decision on direction). Take every thread answer with a grain of salt tho. man, I kno. of only a few real world gear ****'s and they all say Ef the forums I still come to find basic DIY and other similar knowledge that alot of people should be more then thanked for lol. Things that you can usually put your bottom dollar on tho. is what some of the best guys are here for is knowledge like claying the motor & degreeing (really good instructional DIY for that n a few at that. especially since I think I read you have adj. cam gears.

If your running H23 bottom end and just swapping a VTEC head on it
with type S cams just clay it with cams straight UP and see where your at, thats when YOU'll kno exactly where your at; no questions asked.

Its when this guy says something that another says Oh his word is gold man, and then you go on another thread saying the same S=it cause what you just read on the last Lol. . . sorry rant over. Point is read and learn reputable information and have fun! GL! with your build.

I also find it useful to get some of the more reliable guru's attention if you ask one or two specific questions at a time.

re-reading your OP, I'm more then certain your build can be done with cam tuning, maybe slightly thicker headgasket, custom pistons I mean pick your poison man. If its one thing I learned about all this is anything is possible dont limit yourself. like I said do it right and youll know exactly where your at as far as clearances.

4naccord

I appreciate all constructive critisim, wisdom sent my way. This is not a build I plan on just slapping together, crossing the fingers and hoping on. It seems like lately that's all I'm doing is research and coming up with some varying info. I was under the impression that it was actual piston height differences between an h23a and h22, rod length and center-to-center were the same but wrist pins different for H22 pistons.

While this is intended to be a budget build it doesn't mean I plan on skimping on the important areas, machining, balancing, tuning, etc. I have simply managed to hang onto enough parts over the years to essentially piece this build together, minus pistons at the moment.

The only pistons Mahle offers that I would be interested in would be the 11.5:1, a more aggressive profile than Type S at 11.0:1, anything else they offer would only lower compression past the ratio I would like to achieve. I could always sleeve the block and that may yet happen, though more due to need than want; even though it opens up a world of piston choices.

My reasoning for the build was that I drive in a "mountainous" area; constant elevation changes mixed with lots of curves. The extra torque would actually be more beneficial to me over the HP of just building the H22, not that its a slouch in the torque dept. just been there and done that.

snobordboy

Yeah the difference in rod length is a big factor for these engines. One of the easiest ways to see how things work, at least with the various stock parts, is to experiment in the zeal compression calculator. It does not have the H23A rod length in there, but you can enter that manually.

One large factor with Mahles will be the piston design. Yes they might be designed for 11.5:1 in a stock H22, but the valve pockets are better design for clearance of big cams compared to stock Honda pistons. When you get the piston height up at the deck or beyond with the H23 setup, the exhaust valve pockets don't give much room. If paired with the right rod and crank, and a stock head and deck height, you would be above the 11.5:1, and have the safety to run a decent cam that takes advantage of the compression.

And by all means, ask questions with specifics. In this game, there are a few of us who have tried many different combos, and seen first hand what works and what doesn't. I generally will give info based on what I have personally built, clayed, measured, tuned, broken etc myself.

And I will give a few bits of what I have learned are areas NOT to skimp or ignore. Don't re-use auto tensioners. Use a KS tensioner or the H23 manual setup. Lost one engine due to this.
Use high quality cam gears, check the bolts frequently, and loctite them once properly tuned. If possible, avoid the cheap ones with little 4mm allen key bolts, and find some with big 3/8 hex bolts like AEM or Golden eagle. Lost an engine due to that as well.
Use Honda O-rings for any critical fluid areas, they fit correctly, and will save many headaches of tracing fluid leaks.
Use the spring style LMAs, and check the height for the head in use. This will ensure low noise, no vtec rocker slap etc. Just prudent advice for any H build.

snobordboy

I guess just to run with the idea of working with parts that you have now, is there a chance that you have any H22 pistons, either USDM or JDM build, and from an OBD1 car 91-95, with the press in wrist pins?

If you wanted to use Type-S pistons then you would need the rods modified for the floating wrist pin, but the OBD1 H22 pistons you would not need that. The JDM H22 pistons will not be quite as high of compression as the Type-S, but it is over 11.5:1, and will have the same or slightly better valve clearance for you.

Personally I love the setup, having run it with JDM cams and Pro1 cams. Good build quality, good tuning, and good airflow, and it is one hell of a fun street engine with tons of torque! I actually bought a set of Type-S pistons for it, and ended up just sticking with the JDM H22 pistons instead. And between buying an H22 with damaged crank snout, buying an H23A1 for the crank and rods, and buying gaskets, bearings, rings, and seals, doing all the work myself my engine cost me under $700 the first time I built it. Mods and fancy parts came later.

4naccord

For this build, I have:
95 USDM H22 OBD1 with Type S camshafts/blue top and JUN A.C.G., forged rods.
92 USDM H23 stock, presently in the Prelude
94 USDM F22 long block(running engine when torn down)
Venom Intake Manifold H22
Skunk2 70mm TB
DC H22 Header
P28 with Hondata S300
H23/H22 manual transaxles

I honestly hadn't thought of the difference in valve relief in pistons, until you mentioned it; thank you. I had read about having to change wrist pins, but was not aware of OBD1 being exempt, again thanks.

snobordboy

Ok, the simplest way to deal with that would be to pull apart the H22, and simply replace the crank and rods with the H23 parts. If there are forged rods in there, what pistons are in use, and what style of wrist pin?

Using the type-s cams just make absolutely sure of the clearances V2V and P2V, through the whole range of cam gear adjustable. If you still have the old hydraulic LMAs in that head, might be worth getting a set of the spring style in there as well.

If that Venom is the square sheet metal style, keep an eye on the welds, they are prone to cracks and vacuum leaks.


Header will work fine, but it is a choke point for the big stroke, so a better one down the road would help it breathe more.

When I first built my engine, I just took a jdm H22, swapped in the usdm H23 crank and rods, and kept everything else the same. Ebay header, stock intake manifold and TB, stock injectors, only used a Neo (VAFC) to adjust fuel. According to trap speed calculators that cheap build made a hair over 200 WHP, and picked up .6 on my ET at the track compared to a bone stock jdm H22. Not bad in my opinion.

4naccord

Still using stock pistons in the H22. Had ordered Type S for that engine but seller backed-out of the sale at last minute. Needed the car running again at the time, like yesterday, so we stuck the stock pistons back in. Hydro-locked the engine and managed to make a U out of one of the stock rods.

The Venom Intake is the "block plenum" with short runners; will keep an eye on it though, thanks. It came with another engine I got and just swapped it back to a factory manifold because I'm simply not a fan of chrome.

This is not the final iteration of this engine, just the starting building blocks. Would love to put another I.M. and Header (custom) on the engine eventually. The Header will be the choke point on the exhaust regardless of what I go with; I live in a smog exempt area.

If I decide to leave the pistons alone, which is the way I'm leaning at the moment, I could instead put those funds toward a better I.M./Header. I have not kept up-to-date with who is making a good mass produced Header, any suggestions? I know a custom set would be ideal, just not in the picture this go around.