mike5809

Big update on last reply

Ok last year in april the my 2001 honda cbr F4i just died on me while riding. It had full power (lights, signals, speedo, tach, etc) It just wouldnt start and also the <u> fuel pump would not prime </u>. I replaced battery, checked the ecm, and stuff nothing worked. So I started to strip it down look for a loose wire, I didn't find one. Then randomly one day after i put it back together 4 weeks later it just started up.

Well today I was riding and the bike again lost all power and died on me in the street. I have all power again lights come on, tach and speedo work, etc. And again the <u> fuel pump does not prime </u> I try to turn it on and all I hear is the starter.

I am guessing there has to be a loose wire cause what I think is the pump isnt turning on and there for no fuel - so the bike wont start. What do you guys think? Where should I start?

edit Btw I replaced the motor about 6 months ago. It did the same thing with my old motor, and now with the new motor, if that helps


Modified by mike5809 at 7:06 PM 3/31/2006


Modified by mike5809 at 9:07 PM 3/31/2006

MSchu

sounds like a relay of some type to me, I dont know about your particular model's relay, but there has to be a fuel relay and/or an ignition relay.

mike5809

Yeah last time when this happend I checked them - Well I swaped them out with 2 working ones. I did that with the fuel and ignition and it didn't change anything.

I really frustrated too, cause I have been riding around in 40 degree weather all winter, and today it is 70 degrees and its supposed to be this way all weekend...

.Ash

voltage regulator.

MSchu

having had an integra I would guess that you also know of the lack of a good negative battery connection... check the neg at the battery and at the ground

.Ash

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSchu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">having had an integra I would guess that you also know of the lack of a good negative battery connection... check the neg at the battery and at the ground </TD></TR></TABLE>


you sold it?

MSchu

Not me baby

adamRC51

did you flip the switch.... hehe. i dunno man, maybe your pump is grounded out, or you just have a bad relay.

ASteele2

I seriously doubt it's the regulator. A bad regulator will kill the battery because it's being fed too high voltage - a bad rectifier portion will simply not charge the battery at all (or give it less and less of a charge as power demand increases).

A bad ground at the fuel pump might be it... why did you do replace all those different things and not check the pump itself? The way this problem is intermittent, I'd start there. Clean all connections, check all grounds, etc.

To help diagnose: what voltage reading are you getting at the battery? Is it ~12 volts? A bike WILL start with a bad charging system, it will just die when the battery goes out because it's not producing enough current to power itself. Trace all the wires leading in/out of the fuel pump and check them each for their purposes - make sure the hot lead is hot, the ground has connectivity, and the relay is functioning properly - remember, heat and vibration kill electrical components. I fried an R/R in less than 3 months because I had it in a warm area and very poorly mounted. Just a frame of reference.

mike5809

Thanks for the help guys. I am going to do what i did last time. Take off the tank make sure everything is connected right, esp around the fuel pump and check to make sure all wires are good.

I as well do not think its regulator or battery related but something with wiring, I also do not think the pump is bad itself cause it would not just stop working then work for 10 months then stop.

btw beautiful teg schu ! I see you were looking at G2IC website I havent been on that site for at least a year or 2. Great site!

.Ash

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ASteele2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I seriously doubt it's the regulator. A bad regulator will kill the battery because it's being fed too high voltage - a bad rectifier portion will simply not charge the battery at all (or give it less and less of a charge as power demand increases).

A bad ground at the fuel pump might be it... why did you do replace all those different things and not check the pump itself? The way this problem is intermittent, I'd start there. Clean all connections, check all grounds, etc.

To help diagnose: what voltage reading are you getting at the battery? Is it ~12 volts? A bike WILL start with a bad charging system, it will just die when the battery goes out because it's not producing enough current to power itself. Trace all the wires leading in/out of the fuel pump and check them each for their purposes - make sure the hot lead is hot, the ground has connectivity, and the relay is functioning properly - remember, heat and vibration kill electrical components. I fried an R/R in less than 3 months because I had it in a warm area and very poorly mounted. Just a frame of reference.</TD></TR></TABLE>

it wasn't a honda but with my r6; the regulator was on its way out and would randomly start and run every now and then. battery was getting some charge but not enough to run for long periods of time...

big pete

I would also have to vote for the rectifier. Borrow an OHM meter and check all the electrical stuff

ASteele2

Right-O, that makes sense. Modern R/R's are 3 phase and have 3 separate diodes that can go bad. If one goes bad it will exhibit the symptoms like you had and requires replacement of the entire R/R unit. Diodes fail "shut" because their job is to turn the AC generated power of the stator and turn it into DC that the battery can accept... if the current doesn't get "changed" then it's pretty much useless. When the regulator goes, though, it tends to fail open because it's only job is to cap-off the current flow so that the battery doesn't see 20V charging - I fried my battery recently because the regulatory portion of the R/R failed. The battery would hold a charge for a few hours, but that's it.

Wiring is probably the best place to start.

Some components are grounded to the frame via their mounting points so check and make sure the pump is secure.

MSchu

Honda F4 Gang Tackled

ASteele2

Important stuff to check:

This will help you sort down a CHARGING system problem:

http://www.cyclewareables.com/...t.htm

This flowchart is AWESOME and helped me track down a problem just a few weeks ago.

You said the fuel pump does not prime, but does the engine crank? It occurred to me that everybody saying R/R could be right. You could read a correct voltage but not have enough amperage to do much of anything - lights don't draw much juice. So I take back what I said about it not being the R/R - double check it

One thing that flow chart will teach you is that if you're competant with a crimp kit you can buy an R/R from just about any Honda bike and wire it in if yours failed (a few exceptions of course)... my VFR700 is using an RC-51 RR

mike5809

Hey thanks alot everyone for the great info. I appreciate it.

I didnt have a chance to work on it tonight, i got frustrated so i headed to the bar instead

But for your question no the engine does not crank, all that happens is the starter is making the regular noise but nothing other than that. The engine doesnt even attempt to crank over.

big pete

same thing happend to my VFR400 when the rectifier crapped out

mike5809

Ok. Well today I took off the tank. I noticed a clip was not connected. It was the wires that were coming from my fuel pump to the wiring harness. I plugged it in, and the pump primed. I tried to start it and it fired right up. I let it run it ran perfect. So I shut it off and did the same things a few times. Each time ran perfect. Also while it was running I unplugged it and the bike stalled exactly the way it did on me when it broke down. So I concluded this was the problem. So i zip tied it down good and put the bike back together, and unloaded it from the truck (I was working on it in the bed of the truck i have no garage at college) Well neway i got it down on the ground and went to move it, tried to fire it up nothing, pump will not prime again. So i took it apart this time its still plugged in so i unplug it plug it in nothing, I make sure the wires are all connected in they are but still nothing.

Anyone have any ideas?

MSchu

if your sure this is your problem, it can still fail even when plugged in. I have to ask, was this bike in a flood by any chance? your fitting mays be corroded and or oxidizing. if you take apart the clip, or look into the end is it blue or corroded in anyway? if so clean off and make sure to use dielectric grease when you reassemble.

Another thing, are you sure the clip was not pulled off when you took the tank off?

mike5809

The clip is not corroded in anyway. It looks brand new and perfect - And no i am not sure if it unpluged while i took the tank off. At first i thought it unplugged when i took it off but by pluggin it back in it worked right away and by testing it by unplugging it when it was running and the bike stalling i figured that that was the the problem. Maybe the pump is bad? or the wires

is it possable that by me zipting the line really tight taht i pinched the line somehow??? and all the wires are still connected in the clip good.

gots_a_sol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike5809 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I also do not think the pump is bad itself cause it would not just stop working then work for 10 months then stop.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


being a mechanic, you'd be surprised how many cars we get that wont start and you cannot hear the fuel pump prime, whack the gas tank with a hammer a few times and the fuel pump magically starts working again. Your fuel pump could very well be on its way out.

mike5809

Well I finally took it home, took all the fairings off. I checked all fuses they were all good, I checked all connections they were all plugged in good no corrosion, the grounds seemed well grounded. But i havent been able to check the voltage of any of the wires yet as I dont have access to a multimeter.

I did hit the tank a few times and the pump lightly, but nothing happened

still convinced its a bad wire/connection. or a relay, or the pump has gone out.

hopefully I can get access to the correct tools here soon.

mike5809

Well I got it fixed!

It ended up being a loose connection by the headlights. I would never of found it but a friend of mine with the same year f4i said his did they same thing and he jiggled a certain wire connection and it worked. So I went home and did the same thing a started up right away! So its fixed.

I appreciate everyones help very much. Thanks mike!

MSchu

so it was your ignition?