beyondspexj

so yesterday afternoon it started out as your average brake job. replaced the rotors and pads. after everything was done i noticed the pedal would go to the floor and barley stop the car. so i bleed the front brakes as those were the only ones i had messed with. still no luck. so this morning i had the mc replaced ( only because there wasnt anyone else who could help me bleed the brakes lol ) and the tech tells me that it was only part of the problem. he is saying that the proportion valve is messed up. now i was told its not too often these things go out. the tech did make sure to bleed all 4 brakes. i get to work and ask our brake tech here what he thought. he told me that i should bleed the brake system one more time and see if it helps or not but that it also could be the valve so its a 50/50 chance. does anyone else have any other suggestions?? unfortunatly my knowlege on brakes only went as far as changing pads and rotors so this is really my first time dealing with bleeding and the such. also, while the car is running the pedal has to go just about all the way down to stop the car as stated above, the front rotors still look brand new ( as if the pads have only lightly grazed the rotor, i can still see the cross pattern on the rotors ) and when the car is off the pedal gets hard. evidence of air in the lines still?? TIA!!!!

beyondspexj

bump

onepoint6i

honestly, im not a fan of bleeding brakes via pumping, this ruins MC and maybe proportioning valves...

I have always gravity bled my brakes...and it has always worked flawlessly...

Have your tech gravity bleed all four of them..see what the outcome is after..

NOTE:
when you turn the car off the pedal is "suppose" to get hard..theres no vaccume for the brake booster...

Stunna MIKE

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beyondspecs_jamar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and when the car is off the pedal gets hard. evidence of air in the lines still?? TIA!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>


lol, Was that a joke ?

Stunna MIKE

Did you pump the brakes, mabey that's why the pedel is hitting the floor.

downest

Go buy a vacuum bleeder for 15 bucks. You can get a nicer one still for 25 at autozone. You can do it yourself. If the new MC went in without correct bench bleeding it will take a while to get all the air out.

beyondspexj

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by downest &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Go buy a vacuum bleeder for 15 bucks. You can get a nicer one still for 25 at autozone. You can do it yourself. If the new MC went in without correct bench bleeding it will take a while to get all the air out.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats what im thinking thus why im going to try and bleed it again tomarrow morning. maybe ill try getting the vacuum bleeder instead of doing the pump the brake and hold technique.

Cuda70

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onepoint6i &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">honestly, im not a fan of bleeding brakes via pumping, this ruins MC and maybe proportioning valves...</TD></TR></TABLE>

How? I am not trying to argue here, but I really don't understand the logic of how pump-n-hold would ruin a master cylinder.

It's the same action that you use when you drive the car every day...

Enlighten me, seriously, I would like to know.

The vacuum pump is a great way to bleed the breaks by yourself. It is less messier too as an added benefit.

beyondspexj

another question as i cannot find my repair manual at the moment.. is the brake pedal adjustable at all??

beyondspexj

did a quick search and found this:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crx_88_si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Found this on the net awhile back and saved it.. enjoy.


1. With the engine off, press the brake pedal several times. Then press it hard and hold that pressure for 15 seconds. If the pedal sinks, a brake line, wheel cylinder or master cylinder is faulty.

2. Start the engine with the pedal pressed. If the pedal sinks slightly, the booster is working. if the pedal height doesn't vary, the booster or check valve is faulty.

3. Press the brake pedal with the engine running. Then stop the engine. If the pedal height does not vary for 30 seconds the booster is OK. If the pedal rises, the booster is faulty.

4. With the engine off press the pedal several times with normal pressure. When the pedal is first pressed, it should be low. On consecutive applications, pedal height should gradually rise. If pedal height does not vary, check booster check valve. The check valve is the thing in the big vacuum line going to the booster, which is below the master cylinder in the engine compartment</TD></TR></TABLE>

now with #1 the pedal doesnt sink

with #2 the pedal seems to sink a little more that slightly

with #3 the pedal height does come back up and thus would state that the booster is faulty

with #4 i think i may need to check the boost valve.

so now my guess is either the brake booster or proportioning valve but i heard those doent really go bad. any suggestions??

beyondspexj

bump...

just tried adjusting the rear brakes. found a diagram on how to adjust the brake pedal. try that next??

SiRay13

The brake pedal is adjustable, it requres you to mutilate a few of your life time warranty craftsman wrenches along with a contortionist in order to get down there to adjust it, there's some links online that will show you how to do it. just be careful you don't adjust it too much,you'll fry your brakes.

onepoint6i

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cuda70 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How? I am not trying to argue here, but I really don't understand the logic of how pump-n-hold would ruin a master cylinder.

It's the same action that you use when you drive the car every day...

Enlighten me, seriously, I would like to know.

The vacuum pump is a great way to bleed the breaks by yourself. It is less messier too as an added benefit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

kinda hard to explain, but ima try my best..

-Lets say you have the original EF Master cylinder thats has 200K miles

then you bleed the brakes for some apparent reason, ok so

the seal inside of the MC has created a "groove" per say of a short

distance for the last 200K miles of being used normally right....When bleeding

the pedal is pushed to release out the fluid when the bleeder is open, the

seal inside of the MC has now been pushed passed the normal wear point..per

say.., in turn the seal ruins itself and does not work properly like it was for the

past 200K miles......

I believe it all depends on the age of the MC...If its

new or semi new, I highly doubt this happens....

Honeslty I think I learned this back in HS..I really can't remember..But i have

seen this happen on various cars when the brakes are bled via pumping...

I have always used the gravity method for bleeding, unless i have a good fluid

vaccume handy... If I do HAVE to pump the pedal i dont press it all the way

down, i go like 3/4 of the way

unless its a new MC im dealing with..... im not a brake expert though :shrugs: