Go Back   Honda-Tech > Honda and Acura Model-Specific Technical Forums > Honda CRX / EF Civic (1988-1991)
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search


Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-06-2009, 06:14 PM   #1
Honda-Tech Member
 
sde780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morgantown, WV, USA
Posts: 4,579
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to sde780
Default Symptoms of off timing

What are the symptoms of the timing being off? I don't think I aligned the cam to perfect TDC when I changed my timing belt.

The valve cover is slanted or something? I lined it up with that (slanted to the left a little).

Is it supposed to be lined straight? (with Up going straight up, two marks on side perfectly straight?

Now the car feels sluggish and I can barely go up a small hill in 3rd, for steep hills 2nd is pushing it. I even had to stop and downshift to 1st.

There's also a rattling at around 2k in 2nd-5th gear, sounds like it's coming from the engine bay area. It's only under acceleration. Sounds like metal rattling on metal, any help?
__________________
2012 Tacoma DCLB
https://www.youtube.com/user/shengdama?feature=mhee
sde780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 08:58 PM   #2
Honda-Tech Member
 
ivanson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Modesto, CA, USA
Posts: 331
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

check your ignition timing with a timing light. usually if your timing is off the red and white marks on your crank wont be near the alignment pointer. btw sohc? dohc?
ivanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 08:59 PM   #3
Honda-Tech Member
 
ivanson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Modesto, CA, USA
Posts: 331
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

white mark tdc red btdc/bdc
ivanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2009, 07:28 AM   #4
Honda-Tech Member
 
sde780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morgantown, WV, USA
Posts: 4,579
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to sde780
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

dont have a red thing. there was a white mark on the small crank pulley where the timing belt wrapped around. would it be pretty obvious if i had the cam pulley a little off?
__________________
2012 Tacoma DCLB
https://www.youtube.com/user/shengdama?feature=mhee
sde780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2009, 08:23 AM   #5
Honda-Tech Member
 
aaronhume's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Edmonds, WA, USA
Posts: 1,228
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to aaronhume
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

you may have to clean off the crank pulley to see the red mark, its to the left of the white mark. if you turn everything to TDC, where the white mark lines up with the plastic marker, and the cam Up arrow is up, with the two horizontal lines lined up with the top surface of the head, you are all TDC, then if you haven't, check the ignition timing with a timing light (adjust distributor position until red mark is lined up with plastic mark used for aligning TDC) also, when adjusting ignition timing, make sure to short the two-pin jumper on the driver side of your engine bay that should have a cap on it, and/or not plugged into anything. (thats the service jumper, to keep RPMs consistent when adjusting timing)
__________________
Current Car: 94 Civic Sedan LX (jdm VX eco swap by me)
My VX into LX swap ~ My YouTube videos
Car History: 89 Civic Sedan B16A@14.997 1/4; 92 Integra GS, 88 CRX HF, 85 Civic DX
aaronhume is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2009, 09:25 AM   #6
Honda-Tech Member
 
Dark_Teg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Odessa, TX, USA
Posts: 1,016
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

Cam timing and ignition timing are two totaly different things. Your cam timing can be jacked with your ignition timing set correctly and vice versa.
__________________
88' CRX Si
Garage-http://honda-tech.com/garage/1988-Ho...-Dark_Teg.html
92 Mustang/00 Lightning/08 Trailblazer SS/14 300 Ninja/14 650 Ninja/09 Ruckus
Dark_Teg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2009, 12:15 PM   #7
Honda-Tech Member
 
sde780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morgantown, WV, USA
Posts: 4,579
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to sde780
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

I haven't messed with the ignition timing, period. It's fine.


My cam timing might be off. Is the "up" supposed to be straight up? I lined it up with the valve cover and it's a little crooked
__________________
2012 Tacoma DCLB
https://www.youtube.com/user/shengdama?feature=mhee
sde780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2009, 12:40 PM   #8
Honda-Tech Member
 
Dark_Teg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Odessa, TX, USA
Posts: 1,016
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

Quote:
Originally Posted by sde780 View Post
I haven't messed with the ignition timing, period. It's fine.


My cam timing might be off. Is the "up" supposed to be straight up? I lined it up with the valve cover and it's a little crooked
My point was a timing light may not be the best tool to check for cam timing being set incorrectly.

Have you had the head surfaced? Just line up the timing mark on the crank gear and then look at the cam gear. It is really obvious if you are off a tooth. If your head has been surfaced then you will need an adjustable cam gear to fix the problem.
__________________
88' CRX Si
Garage-http://honda-tech.com/garage/1988-Ho...-Dark_Teg.html
92 Mustang/00 Lightning/08 Trailblazer SS/14 300 Ninja/14 650 Ninja/09 Ruckus
Dark_Teg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2009, 01:58 PM   #9
Honda-Tech Member
 
sde780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morgantown, WV, USA
Posts: 4,579
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to sde780
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

Nope, head has not been surfaced. So what should I be looking for when I line up the crank gear with the timing mark?

I put the belt on with the cam gear slightly tilted towards the headlights, not completely straight up because the valve cover is tilted, I aimed it with that. Is that correct, or should I have made it straight up?
__________________
2012 Tacoma DCLB
https://www.youtube.com/user/shengdama?feature=mhee
sde780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2009, 10:32 PM   #10
Honda-Tech Member
 
aaronhume's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Edmonds, WA, USA
Posts: 1,228
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to aaronhume
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

line the marks up with the surface of the head... thats it.
__________________
Current Car: 94 Civic Sedan LX (jdm VX eco swap by me)
My VX into LX swap ~ My YouTube videos
Car History: 89 Civic Sedan B16A@14.997 1/4; 92 Integra GS, 88 CRX HF, 85 Civic DX
aaronhume is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 10:57 AM   #11
Honda-Tech Member
 
sde780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morgantown, WV, USA
Posts: 4,579
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to sde780
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

umm i cant get my head level with it, the fenders in the way.

is it perfectly level, or is it slanted? mine was slanted when i lined it up
__________________
2012 Tacoma DCLB
https://www.youtube.com/user/shengdama?feature=mhee
sde780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 06:05 AM   #12
Honda-Tech Member
 
sde780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morgantown, WV, USA
Posts: 4,579
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to sde780
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

Quote:
Originally Posted by sde780 View Post
is it perfectly level, or is it slanted? mine was slanted when i lined it up
Is the UP straight up, perpendicular to the ground? Or is it tilted a little?
__________________
2012 Tacoma DCLB
https://www.youtube.com/user/shengdama?feature=mhee
sde780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 06:15 AM   #13
Honda-Tech Member
 
aaronhume's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Edmonds, WA, USA
Posts: 1,228
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to aaronhume
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

it will be tilted a little... as the head is not perpendicular or parallel with the ground.
__________________
Current Car: 94 Civic Sedan LX (jdm VX eco swap by me)
My VX into LX swap ~ My YouTube videos
Car History: 89 Civic Sedan B16A@14.997 1/4; 92 Integra GS, 88 CRX HF, 85 Civic DX
aaronhume is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 06:23 AM   #14
Honda-Tech Member
 
sde780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morgantown, WV, USA
Posts: 4,579
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to sde780
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

Okay, that's good. How do you know exactly how much to tilt it then? There's not much to line it up with, except by eyeballing it from a tilted angle
__________________
2012 Tacoma DCLB
https://www.youtube.com/user/shengdama?feature=mhee
sde780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 06:31 AM   #15
Honda-Tech Member
 
sde780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morgantown, WV, USA
Posts: 4,579
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to sde780
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

Here's a picture I just snapped, can you circle where it's supposed to be lined up with?
Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
2012 Tacoma DCLB
https://www.youtube.com/user/shengdama?feature=mhee
sde780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 06:31 AM   #16
Honda-Tech Member
 
aaronhume's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Edmonds, WA, USA
Posts: 1,228
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to aaronhume
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

get it as close as you can tell. if the gear is off, the crank pulley will also be off.

edit: up should be pointed up, then from that position the two horizontal hash marks will line up with the head (the aluminum you see right next to the gear/bottom of valve cover)
__________________
Current Car: 94 Civic Sedan LX (jdm VX eco swap by me)
My VX into LX swap ~ My YouTube videos
Car History: 89 Civic Sedan B16A@14.997 1/4; 92 Integra GS, 88 CRX HF, 85 Civic DX
aaronhume is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 06:34 AM   #17
Honda-Tech Member
 
sde780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morgantown, WV, USA
Posts: 4,579
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to sde780
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

hmm well I eyeballed it and my crank pulley is not off after 1 week of driving it. Would the small chunks taken off the crank pulley be the cause of why it's got no power going up hills? Also, the noise when accelerating (metal rattling). These problems weren't there before
__________________
2012 Tacoma DCLB
https://www.youtube.com/user/shengdama?feature=mhee
sde780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 06:37 AM   #18
Honda-Tech Member
 
aaronhume's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Edmonds, WA, USA
Posts: 1,228
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to aaronhume
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

try running a compression test on all your cylinders, and check the coloration of the park plugs, see if there is oil on them, if they are red, grey, or just black. ideally, they should look black if I remember right.
__________________
Current Car: 94 Civic Sedan LX (jdm VX eco swap by me)
My VX into LX swap ~ My YouTube videos
Car History: 89 Civic Sedan B16A@14.997 1/4; 92 Integra GS, 88 CRX HF, 85 Civic DX
aaronhume is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 06:38 AM   #19
Honda-Tech Member
 
aaronhume's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Edmonds, WA, USA
Posts: 1,228
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to aaronhume
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

small bits of crank pulley will not make a noticeable difference. also, are all of your engine mounts still good? the rear one is harder to check, but you should see if the rubber is broken.

edit: also check your ignition timing with the car running (need a timing light)
__________________
Current Car: 94 Civic Sedan LX (jdm VX eco swap by me)
My VX into LX swap ~ My YouTube videos
Car History: 89 Civic Sedan B16A@14.997 1/4; 92 Integra GS, 88 CRX HF, 85 Civic DX
aaronhume is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 06:43 AM   #20
Honda-Tech Member
 
sde780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morgantown, WV, USA
Posts: 4,579
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to sde780
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

Yeah, it was running great before I changed the timing belt, and after I changed it it's running not so good.

I doubt it's the mounts, but I'll check. The driver's side mount, I had to take off to get the timing belt off. I put it back the same way, there's no special way to reinstall it is there? Just put the long bolt through it, tighten the two 17MM bolts that holds the engine up, and tighten the long bolt?

Spark plugs I haven't checked yet, will take a look.

Would the alternator make a difference? I tightened the belt as much as I could, but not 100% sure it's the same as before. Has a little more play than before I removed it.
__________________
2012 Tacoma DCLB
https://www.youtube.com/user/shengdama?feature=mhee
sde780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 07:12 AM   #21
Honda-Tech Member
 
aaronhume's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Edmonds, WA, USA
Posts: 1,228
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to aaronhume
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

shouldn't be anything special for that driver side mount, as long as the bolts are tight enough, and the alternator would not crate that kind of problem, assuming it is fine.

do check the ignition timing and make sure that the red hash mark is lined up with the tdc marker on the plastic timing belt cover with the timing light.
__________________
Current Car: 94 Civic Sedan LX (jdm VX eco swap by me)
My VX into LX swap ~ My YouTube videos
Car History: 89 Civic Sedan B16A@14.997 1/4; 92 Integra GS, 88 CRX HF, 85 Civic DX
aaronhume is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 07:31 AM   #22
Honda-Tech Member
 
sde780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morgantown, WV, USA
Posts: 4,579
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to sde780
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

I'll have to find a timing light. Thanks for the help man
__________________
2012 Tacoma DCLB
https://www.youtube.com/user/shengdama?feature=mhee
sde780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 07:39 AM   #23
Honda-Tech Member
 
aaronhume's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Edmonds, WA, USA
Posts: 1,228
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to aaronhume
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

no problem. timing lights can be purchased relatively cheap, and are invaluable to continued working on your car.
__________________
Current Car: 94 Civic Sedan LX (jdm VX eco swap by me)
My VX into LX swap ~ My YouTube videos
Car History: 89 Civic Sedan B16A@14.997 1/4; 92 Integra GS, 88 CRX HF, 85 Civic DX
aaronhume is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 08:03 AM   #24
Honda-Tech Member
 
sde780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morgantown, WV, USA
Posts: 4,579
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to sde780
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

I just noticed, the belt is much looser on the side that goes down to the crank pulley compared to the side going to the waterpump. I make a video to show you, http://www.vimeo.com/4077216
__________________
2012 Tacoma DCLB
https://www.youtube.com/user/shengdama?feature=mhee
sde780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 08:06 AM   #25
Honda-Tech Member
 
aaronhume's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Edmonds, WA, USA
Posts: 1,228
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to aaronhume
Default Re: Symptoms of off timing

that will usually be more loose than the water pump side, but you can try to get it tighter by messing with the tensioner, and turning the crank pulley counterclockwise, then re-tightening the tensioner.
__________________
Current Car: 94 Civic Sedan LX (jdm VX eco swap by me)
My VX into LX swap ~ My YouTube videos
Car History: 89 Civic Sedan B16A@14.997 1/4; 92 Integra GS, 88 CRX HF, 85 Civic DX
aaronhume is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
changed timing belt in friends civic d16y7... now rattle in valve train chipper Honda Civic/Del Sol (1992 - 2000) 10 07-04-2013 11:59 AM
Throwout Bearing or Input Shaft Bearing? joelmatt89 Honda Civic/Del Sol (1992 - 2000) 4 08-11-2010 07:35 PM
excessive pinging on my sohc 1.6 liter 4 cylinder civiclx xpdude Honda Civic/Del Sol (1992 - 2000) 9 08-04-2009 01:44 PM
infamous exhaust rattle (oh yeah, i've searched) too much vtAK Honda Civic/Del Sol (1992 - 2000) 10 06-29-2005 05:38 AM
slanted or straight exhaust? ej101 Honda Civic/Del Sol (1992 - 2000) 9 03-21-2004 07:28 PM


Tags
1991, belt, cam, car, cars, civic, engine, honda, ignition, integra, notch, problem, symptom, symptoms, timing

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Join Honda-Tech.com

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:22 AM.



2014 Copyright, InternetBrands Inc.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Honda and the Honda marquee are registered trademarks of the American Honda Motor Company, Inc. Neither American Honda Motor Company nor its subsidiaries or affiliates shall bear any responsibility for Honda-Tech.com content, comments, or advertising. Honda-Tech.com is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Company in any way. American Honda Motor Company does not sponsor, support, or endorse Honda-Tech.com in any way. Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.
Emails & Contact Details