thatbluecrx

repost five hundred and thirty three.

Ok, after a year of looking up springs and coilover kits, I've narrowed it down to Skunk2, and Ground Control. I have some final issues that need to be answered/explained, so here they are...

1. Why does everyone hate Skunk2, and without fail, have something bad to say about them? - Have you people actually USED them who don't like them, or you just say what you think is right and go by hearsay??
2. Will Skunk2's FIT MY 1990 CRX, BOLT-ON?.. I hear things here and there about cutting bumpstops, shaving washers.. ect. - What exactly HAS to be done for these to be installed?
3. How much performance will I be loosing with Tokico Illuminas VS KYB AGXs? - Is it worth getting the AGX's for a daily driver with slim track use?.. - Mostly drag if either, but some Auto-X.
4. Assuming I went with Ground Controls, does anybody know their "stock(non-special ordered) spring rates"? - Is it stupid to order GC's without selecting my custom rates?

-Hopefully I'll get some usefull information out of that! Thanks in advance for thoes that take their time to help me out, my head is running in circles and I don't want to make a mistake with this. I might have more that I forgot to list but that's it for now... get back to me...!!!

CRX Toad

Okay I will answer the questions that I know...I have Skunk2 Coil overs on my 91 CRX and on my wife's 96 EX Coupe. I have had no problems what so ever with either. On my CRX I take it on road courses frequently and thrash the suspension and have no issues still with my coil overs they feel very good on the track and do exactly what they need to. So to answer question #1 I love my Skunk2. I have never used GC so I cannot say yah or nah to them. I do know that they have a different way to tighten them down where the Skunk2 have to "nuts" that you tighten together the GC have an allen bolt.

2. Yes they will fit a CRX, no matter what coilover you put on you SHOULD trim your bumpstops, they are very easy to do I did it with my pocket knife. I have never heard of "shaving washers", I know you put washers in the back to correct the camber. You remove your stock suspension (get a spring compressor it will make it easier, there are other ways but it is difficult) and then put your coilover in place of your stock spring and put it back together. If you are unsure how to do this you may want someone with experience to help you for your first time unless you are mechanically inclined (Just be honest with yourself) if you can do it cool if not get help. I had someone help me put coil overs on the first time.

3. I have no experience with AGX but I have heard people have problems with them. I don't know if it is users errors. I would however go with the Illuminas. There will be no performance lose. Also you need to define whether you want a drag car or AX car. Very hard to do both, since suspension setup is on to different realms.

4. Don't know anything about this. I know they do it but you would have to contact GC.

thatbluecrx

Thanks for taking the time to write all that, I appreciate it a lot.. I'm probably going Skunk2/Illuminas.. any more information on that camber correction you mentioned in the rear?...

Outsane

I like GC over skunk because of the adjustability.

Skunk2 uses two locking collars to lock the perch in place
GC uses a pinch bolt to do the same...

the Pinch bolt is easier to use in my opinion.

god.loves.ugly

I just did skunk2's and illuminas in the back and there wasn't any problem with rear camber

Andy R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Outsane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I like GC over skunk because of the adjustability.

Skunk2 uses two locking collars to lock the perch in place
GC uses a pinch bolt to do the same...

the Pinch bolt is easier to use in my opinion.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

although this is nice on car, how many times do you really think you'll be adjusting them? On a dd, you will likely set it once, and leave it be. If you rr or ax, you may change the setup for different tracks, so I could see the advantage there.

Tyson

&lt;1. Why does everyone hate Skunk2, and without fail, have something bad to say about them? - Have you people actually USED them who don't like them, or you just say what you think is right and go by hearsay??&gt;

no, i havent used skunk2 adjustable spring kit. ive only used ground controls. heres the #1 reason why i prefer GC, EIBACH SPRINGS. you can trust them. i cant trust the unknown and unspoken of, hidden vendor, most likely some company in taiwan who gets their material from japan. ive seen the actaul spring BREAK on a car. ive seen lately the coil completely COIL BINDING. that only happens if the spring rate is totally out of whack, which means the materal strength must be incredibly low. judging by the amount of goofs, failures, and redesigns needed at the user end shown by taiwanese manufacturing lately, its obvious they have NO QUALITY CONTROL. eibach certainly does. and ground control has their sleeves MADE IN THE USA.

secondly, i can tell there is SOME, perhaps even minimal design effort in ground controls sleeve, of which there seems to be NONE at skunk2. yes, they have a much easier way of locking the spring perch using the hex nut. my experience with the jamnut style with motorcycles is a bitch. but you can also tell that they actually take some effort in setting the proper dimensions in the sleeve, like length and shoulder height. i do agree, MOST ppl wont ever need to adjust their ride hieght more than a few times at first until theire happy wit htheir ride height. but its certainly a big plus for those of us who do need to set ride heights and play with cornerweights.

also, they actually make a SPECIFIC sleeve for the popular konis. before that even, they offered the proper adaptor ring to safely mount it on konis, which skunk2 didnt even realize needed.

thirdly, skunk2, along with omnipower, seem to offer the SAME SPRING RATE for every frickin application. from CRX's to WRX, its the same damn kit with the same spring rates. which for the CRX, i think are too stiff, it being on the light end. that right there tells me they are not interested in quality by manufacturing OR BY DESIGN. GC will give you a different rate even between a CRX and an Integra, if you dont specify your own.


&lt;2. Will Skunk2's FIT MY 1990 CRX, BOLT-ON?.. I hear things here and there about cutting bumpstops, shaving washers.. ect. - What exactly HAS to be done for these to be installed?&gt;

typically just cutting bumpstops in half is about as much extra fabrication done during install.

&lt;3. How much performance will I be loosing with Tokico Illuminas VS KYB AGXs? - Is it worth getting the AGX's for a daily driver with slim track use?.. - Mostly drag if either, but some Auto-X.&gt;

there are other threads comparing illuminas and agx. im an illumina fan, but i dont hear any bad things about agx either. youre good with either in my opinion.

4. Assuming I went with Ground Controls, does anybody know their "stock(non-special ordered) spring rates"? - Is it stupid to order GC's without selecting my custom rates?

350/250 for the crx. still pretty stiff, but ok for the street. i say start with those and then go from there. i think theyre going to be just right for what you plan on.


go here for more propaganda.
http://www.norcalcrx.org/tyson/coilover.html

efboy

i have GC 375 F 300 R and illuminas 5 way on my 90 hatch
but i bought it off a guy for a CRX, custom rates i guess.
I actually think it's stiff, since i have a on 5 = the stiffest setting
but it still gives a lot of body roll still and suspension
seems to drop a little in the back when i have weight n ppl seating back there.
but handles well enough for me !!
adjusting is okay i guess, not hard at all.

Reelizmpro

Well I think most people complained that Skunk 2 stuff was overpriced for what we get and we were just paying for the name. I have no experience to support that but others have. GC makes coil over kits for many makes/models like BMW/Honda/Mazda/etc/etc and all they do are suspension related components. The base spring rates they supply are rates they find to be acceptable for most users who use the car for street/track. Not too too stiff but not soft either. GC also uses standardized ERS (Eibach) 2.5" ID race springs which are quality proven.

As for shocks, I seen the dyno charts for Illuminas and AGX's and the Illuminas have way more rebound adjustment curves which are closer together (meaning more fine tuning/less difference between settings). This is good for racers who want to really fine tune their suspension. I personally use AGX's and they're great for the price but I don't race. I just use my car as a daily driver. I'm pretty sure they're cheaper than Illuminas and more available. I believe they also have a lifetime warranty for the original purchaser.


Modified by Reelizmpro at 7:39 PM 8/1/2005

thatbluecrx

Thanks to all who took the time to post, all were long and clear, I appreciate that a lot!!!! Hearing some of that does make me want GC, and I thought I did at first but then I hear a lot about "dealing with them is horrible".. a few shops around me stopped carrying them because of reasons like so.. That kind of turns me off. Also, I would never come to a custom rate I could be happy with, too many choices/ideas and I don't do one type of driving so it wouldn't really matter... I do agree with Skunk2's universal spring rates, but at 400f/300r I think that will be fine for me, not minding harsh rides, I am pairing them up with AGX's due to the warranty and 'claims' that they will outlast and handle more then the illuminas will, also wound up being about 50$ cheaper... I hope I'm happy with this setup, I'll let you guys know, picking them up tomorrow... I probably won't touch the adjustment once it is set the way I like it, maybe winter/summer change at most.. I'm not looking to slam it, just look more agressive. Also need to stop the rear from planting itself when I launch and shift through the gears.. should do me good... any last words?

Tyson

get an alignment when youve set your ride height.

i still think youre making a mistake by buying skunks. but its your money and perogative.

loodood

i was reading this thread and figured i'd add some of my experience. i've been using gc's and illuminas for some time now on my 91 hatch; i used the exact same setup on my last 98 prelude. when you remove your oem struts...you'll notice that you have to use a spring compressor in order to disassemble the unit...then you use your new gc (or skunk2) sleeves, put the springs in, and when you bolt it all together you don't need the spring compressors to get it all back together, because the springs that they supply you with are like 1/3 shorter than the originals. now, if you want original ride height, you just take the assembled unit and spin the lower perch all the way up till it is up against the bottom of the spring, but if you want to lower your car (which i believe is why 75% of peeps actually buy coilovers) then you've got problems...well if you ask me anyways. if you drop the car at all, you no longer have the springs under compression unless the car is on the ground; meaning the springs are kinda floating around until you have the car on the ground. if you drive on the streets and lets say you go over a large rr-track, your wheels might not necessarily leave the ground, but your weight/center of gravity is way up in the air, and your springs literally lose contact with the bottom perch. not that i've ever heard of it happening personally, but in effect, if the spring doesn't seat itself properly when returning the weight down, you could get it cocked in there, and possibly lose control. it can also make for a bouncy ride. now this is worst case scenerio, and i'm sure somebody is gonna flame me or tell me i'm completely insane, just as ground control did when i called them on it. you kinda have two options: 1. get some longer springs than what gc supplies with the coilover kit (i guess this would be custom), 2. increase the length of your upper shock mounts. for those who totally disagree with me, please i would like to know your opinions.

Tyson

its never been a problem with me.

youll have the same issue with skunk2 anyway.

its not an issue.

Outsane

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">get an alignment when youve set your ride height.

i still think youre making a mistake by buying skunks.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Reelizmpro

What you're saying has been more of an issue with E30 BMW's in the rear since the shock and springs are separate. Theoretically, the small ERS springs could dislodge or fall out of the perch if the car got airborne. This isn't a problem on our Hondas because the shock shaft is in the center of the spring on all 4 corners, it's not going anywhere. The collars supplied with GC's kit match the 2.5" ID springs perfectly, so there's virtually no chance of the spring landing wrong. Don't forget that shocks also have rebound dampening.

Outsane

Loodood,

I have seen cheap coilover that do not seat right... and make a loud clack noise when they do seat, but it never caused any harm.

I have never seen this as an issue with GC's..

Quik89Si

My Skunk2's have served me well, aside from the fact that they didn't fit over my Bilstien shocks in the rear...I could have saved some $ by goin w/GC's since I wouldn't have had to buy 2 Illuminas for the rear. Oh well, I got a really good deal on the Skunk2's, brand new, so I can't complain too much.

BiG Chris

ive read what people say but ive had skunk2's gc's and wr's

my skunk2's didnt lower my car that much and was a ok ride i abused the car through some twisties as i do and they are ok

my ground control were way too stiff and bouncy i hated them

my weapon-r circuit pro's have been my favorite so far with the dual spring setup not bouncy at all and ive taken them to the auto x and mountain twisties and it was great.

all setup have used tokico illumina's

lavo81

just a question but would having 500 lbs extra (going back to college) hurt my gc coilovers? 500lbs mainly in the back of the car

Tyson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lavo81 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just a question but would having 500 lbs extra (going back to college) hurt my gc coilovers? 500lbs mainly in the back of the car</TD></TR></TABLE>

absolutely nothing to worry about. id be more worried about your shocks, but still not worried.

lavo81

thanks, for the mean time they are stock but it one or 2 or 4 goes ill replace really dont have the money though

BlueShadow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heres the #1 reason why i prefer GC, EIBACH SPRINGS. you can trust them. i cant trust the unknown and unspoken of, hidden vendor, most likely some company in taiwan who gets their material from japan.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup that's one of the main reasons I got GC's over anything else. Eibach springs are one of the best springs out there. On top of that, GC can give you custom spring rates to meet your specific need. I went with an auto-x type GC setup on my CRX. I got 450lbs up front and 600lbs in the rear along with some Koni Yellows to handle the stiffer spring.

Des anybody even know who makes the springs for Skunk2 CO's or what spring rate they come with and whether you can order custom spring rates?

lavo81

iv heard that more rate in the back makes for a worse dd is that true? ive been told to get 350 f and 300 r

BlueShadow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lavo81 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">iv heard that more rate in the back makes for a worse dd is that true? ive been told to get 350 f and 300 r</TD></TR></TABLE>

The back end is more a little bit bouncy, but it does go around corners very well. From what I've read a stiffer rear spring induces oversteer.

Outsane

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BiG Chris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my ground control were way too stiff and bouncy i hated them


all setup have used tokico illumina's</TD></TR></TABLE>

The spring are not bouncy...
your Shocks were not dampened right for the springs...