Ef4doorwagon

I placed an order for both front uca from rock auto, for the moog type uca. Came in today, one ucais moog very sturdy good design. The other has a moog box label, but the uca is Falcon steering systems. Its identical but the part where the strut goes through is removable and has nuts on the top, and it has play, and the moog one is not adjustable and cant be taken out.
Rock auto said that some companies use different companies products and pass them as their own, but they dont affect the fitment on my vehicle, so for that they said if i return it its at my own expense.
What do i do, keep the falcon uca? Or does falcon suck.

Ef4doorwagon

Some pics

James89DX

If it were me, it would really bug me not having straight up MOOG on both of them. Regardless of whether or not Rock Auto tells you it IS an actual MOOG rebadged as something else, if you ordered a MOOG part you should have been sent an actual MOOG labeled part. It would be one thing if you ordered their "private label" (aka grab bag) parts but if you ordered actual MOOG you should have been sent actual MOOG, period.

I have MOOG arms on my civic and they both look like the one with the gold parts in your pictures. The bushings being clocked is sort of irrelevant as you can clock them on the car (with some effort) but that is one thing I like about the MOOG arms is they come pre-clocked.

Does the ball joint boot seem about the same quality on both arms? Boot quality is typically one of the primary differences between cheap and high quality parts. The cheap ones are thin and not durable and thus crack apart quickly letting dirt and debris in thus ruining your ball joint.

*edit* their reasoning that "fitment should be the same" is also not an adequate defense. Like I said if you ordered and paid for MOOG you should have been sent MOOG, period. Escalate it up the chain because that is not an adequate defense on their part. That's like paying $5k for a paint job and getting a Maaco job and being told "it's still a paint job"

crx_si-r

Moog does not rebadge. I sell their products to my commercial customers. Rock auto does the re badging. Get them to send you what you paid for.

Ef4doorwagon

The ball joint boot on the falcon brand does seem looser and thinner, and the moog one seems more fit, if that makes sense...

Exgie

This is why I always try to use genuine parts, or at the very least from a known supplier like http://www.hondapartsonline.net/1990-honda-civic.html.

Getting something from Rock Auto was kind of your first mistake.

I agree, I wouldn't except that answer and on something like control arms I would want to have a matched set.

That is totally unacceptable. Rock Auto buys old stock from places that close up or changing inventory do you never know what you are really going to get.

Clearly when you order from Rock Auto it does define what you are going to get. IE MOOG or Delphi, or other, so I think you have a strong case that you ordered a MOOG part you should get a MOOG part and not something else.

Cheap is always attractive but here is a rule to follow.

At best anyone can do is 2 of 3. 1 Price 2 Quality 3 Customer Service. No one can do all three and most can't even do 2, and almost never can do 1 and 2.

89civicdx

if you don't really care , it doesn't matter if you use that piece I usually remove them before installing the arms that way I can take arm in and out without removing the shock. I have found moog has the higher quality ball joints

M3THTICAL(EF)

iTrader: (1)

The one reason i didn't use rockauto to get my uca for my civic. Got the raybestos units from Amazon for like $70 and they were beefy pieces. If anything let them foos you're not pleased with it.

Ef4doorwagon

Two different people emailed me from rock auto. The second guy said i ordered moog r series, which isnt produced from moog. Then said do both boxes say moog on them? What makes you think we shipped you the wrong part? Is it possible that moog is making the 2 parts out of different materials, ie one side made of strong material but the other side of less material.... im like what?? I told him he sent me a bkx with moog sticker on it but the uca says falcon...seems like theyre trying to blame me or something.

James89DX

It sounds to me like one was simply boxed incorrectly. I'm sure from the picker's perspective they pulled a MOOG part. I highly doubt they they open every box before shipment or have any reason to believe that when they pull a MOOG boxed part that there isn't an actual MOOG inside the box.

I'm surprised they're not going out of their way to help you. They've sent me wrong stuff a few times over the years and always make it right and then some, including letting me just flat out keep the wrong parts they sent.

Ef4doorwagon

This is what one guy told me Hello,

We do not re-box any parts, rather we sell what we receive from the manufacturer. This part was not re-boxed by us. Rather, R-series products are sourced from many manufacturers and will not necessarily be Moog branded parts. For this reason, we are not able to guarantee that a re-shipment of the part would be any different than what you received. Not all R-series will be branded Moog and we have no way of knowing which stock is and which is not. If you want to send the part back you can use the instructions you currently have for

James89DX

Are you certain you didn't order the R-series?

According to this thread, if you order the R-series they'll occasionally substitute the nicer "problem solver" (this is MOOG's high quality line) stuff.

https://honda-tech.com/suspension-br...erent-3218771/

What it sounds like to me is that you ordered two of the cheaper rung parts. They didn't have enough stock to send you two of the cheaper rung parts and instead sent you one cheaper rung part that you ordered and then essentially gave you an "upgrade" on the other one.

So instead of ordering two nice parts and getting one nice and one cheap part, you ordered two cheap parts and got one nice and one cheap part.

This falls in line with Rock Auto consistently insisting that you ordered the R-series stuff. Sounds like you're SOL as far as a free replacement/return.

Ef4doorwagon

Well thats gay. Learn something new everyday...

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Moog R are the cheapo's (RK9814 & RK9813).

Ef4doorwagon: Does your good arm have "Three (555) Five Made in Japan" stamped into it (on top of the black part)?

I bought the good Moog UCAs back when they were called K9814 & K9813, (now they are CK9814 & CK9813). They were drop-shipped straight from Moog themselves (via Summit Racing) and one had clearly been taken apart. It was dirty and the bolts through the bushings had been loosened. I took it back and had them send another since there IS NO way to torque those bushing bolts with the car at ride height (which is the only way it should be done). I couldn't even fit a wrench against the chassis side to make that happen. Setting the arm/bushing angle should have been done at the factory (which is why your other one is torqued).

Incidentally, even the "good" Moog units ARE INDEED RE-BADGED. The logo on all three of the arms I received straight from them says "Three 555 Five" which is another Japanese brand. Moog is nowhere on the arm or ball-joint or bushings for the EF parts. Moog's own file photo for EF arms even shows the Three 555 Five logo when you zoom in.

Hi-Res Photo from Moog's own site (Federal Mogul): http://www.fme-cat.com/overlays/part...NDA%20CRX&vin=



You can buy Three 555 Five arms for a little cheaper online. At least you could back when I purchased these (a few years ago). I was a little pissed, but they actually turned out to be very good quality. Here is some info on Three Five:
Just send RockAuto an e-mail and they will exchange them for you (and they will pay shipping). Just say the one is defective (cause it is)

Ef4doorwagon

Yeah the one i thought was a moog one looks like that with japan stamp in the circle.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

So there you have it. Confirmation that even Moog's premium line is re-badged. Moog doesn't actually make upper arms for the EF's.

It looks like right now Moog's "CK" line is MUCH cheaper than the Sankei boxed stuff ($59 vs $149 each). Summit is selling them CK9814 & CK9813 for $59 each.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mog-ck9814
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mog-ck9813

Here's Moog's latest product image for "CK" lineup. Still says Three 555 Five on the balljoint and arm:

Ef4doorwagon

Question about the control arms, is there a specific way that they need to be adjusted or tightened when installing? Right now i have nothing in the wheel well except for the brake line, i was going to just tighten the bolts on the uca and just bolt it in at a 90degree angle, is this correct?

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

The OEM instructions say to line up the marks between the two halves and then torque the bushing bolts/nuts. Aftermarket parts do not have these marks. This means the only way to properly set these is by installing them with the nuts loose. Also leave the chassis nuts a little loose because the manual says not to torque those untli the car is on the ground.

Once everything is back together, put the car on the ground and torque all 8 nuts/bolts. This sets the angle of the arm at your specific ride height (espeically if it's not a factory ride height). This may be impossible with the wheel in the way. Also the major problem is on the EF, there isn't much room to fit tools to torque those bolts which is why the manual says to do it off the car with marks. It's also why the 555 arms come factory pre-set. So here is what I did (not on an EF)...

On my EG, I measured the distance between the center of my hub and top arch of the fender before I even started the work. Then I re-created that distance with a jack under the LCA before torquing those bolts. Fortunately there is more room for tools inside the EG fenders. I would install everything with those bolts loose just to get that measurement. Then take the wheel back off and give it a try.

PS: I had to jack the LCA up really high to re-create the proper hub-fender distance. Jacking under the LCA (D1 in the pic) and putting the car on the ground (D2 in the pic) are two completely different ways of compression the suspension (I think it's called motion ratio). Jacking the LCA requires a lot more effort to acheive the same amount of compression. Please be careful if you're on jack stands.

Ef4doorwagon

Very detailed answer. And youre right about the room thing, at best i can fit 2 wrenches, but noT torque wrenches.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

If you can fit two wrenches in there, then go for it. At least you will be able to set the angle. After that you could drop the arm and torque wrench them.