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Old 03-19-2010, 06:23 PM   #1
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Default LS-VTEC cannot set timing

Alright, so swapped an ls-vtec in the CRX. I'm running a GSR basemap on a chipped P28.

First time I had it running, mechanical timing and distributor timing were fine, I just had to retard the distributor all the way.

Had to take it all apart for a couple BS reasons, put it all back together the same way it was, but when I retarded the distributor all the way and it's still not retarded enough... Mechanical timing is perfect. Any ideas?
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Old 03-19-2010, 06:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

if you are having to retard the distributor, then I think mechanical timing is not 100% on. On our last LS/V our distributor was not retarded (i always laugh when I type about that, lol) at all. you might be off a tooth. try setting your timing belt back 1 tooth.
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Old 03-19-2010, 06:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

I mean...I can take pictures if it wasn't so dark. The two notches on the cam gears are pointing directly at each other. The notch on the crank pulley is pointing directly at the notch on the timing belt cover...well it's about 1-2mm forward of it but definitely not a full tooth off, and I can move the crank pulley back every so slightly so it lines up with the notch and the cam gears are still where they should be.
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Old 03-19-2010, 07:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

did you use a timing light? It will be able to tell you how far off you are.
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Old 03-19-2010, 07:28 PM   #5
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

how did you set the block at lsv is the block milled if so it may be off with a lsv it might be in your interest to get good quality adjustable cam gears to time it like EFRue57 your may be a couple of teeth off
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Old 03-19-2010, 07:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

Yep used a timing light. When it flashes, the middle timing mark is about an inch in front of the notch on the timing belt cover.

Why I don't understand was how I was able to get it timed properly last time, and nothing has changed this time I put it together, but I can't retard the distributor enough.

Even though cams and crank pulley all line up properly, would it hurt to turn the crank back a tooth to where the cam/crank don't line up and see how it runs?

I may just adjust the whole basemap back a few degrees although I don't see why I should have to when it worked perfectly fine last time...
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

did you jump the connector next to the blower motor on the passenger side of the car when you set timing using the timing light?
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

Yep actually have the wires ran to the engine bay to a switch just to make it easier.

The ECU tries to compensate but can't quite it it there.

Was suggested I double check that the cams aren't mixed and that the key in the pulley is there/good, but open to any other ideas
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

when using the timing light, did it have a digital read out so you could be exact, or did you just line it up the best you could by eyeballing it?
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:26 AM   #10
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

No digital readout or any adjustments possible, just a basic timing light. Have a mark on the middle BTDC mark on the crank pulley.
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:39 AM   #11
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

Just to put the "mechanical timing is off" thing to rest, here are pictures:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Unless I'm completely wrong, that's how it should be, which is why I don't understand retarding the distributor all the way and it still not being enough...

Yes I'm jumping the service connector. It's more stable than without it jumped but still about an inch forward of the notch on the timing belt cover. I know that it's properly jumped because the CEL is solid when I start the car.

When using the timing light, the BTDC notch is showing up about half the distance between TDC and the BTDC notch.
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Old 03-20-2010, 12:51 PM   #12
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

This seems too obvious, but I'll mention it anyways. Have you made sure your spark plug wires are routed correctly?
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Old 03-20-2010, 01:03 PM   #13
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

is their n e way the rotor some how moved or slid inside the dizzy like as if the screw hole ovaled ???? it would still work but it would deff throw the timeing off
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Old 03-20-2010, 01:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

Rotor is where it should be and tight.

I have spark plugs like this:

34
12 4 3 2 1

I took the cap off the distributor to make sure the rotor was near where the cyl 1 wire is when it's at the btdc mark.
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Old 03-20-2010, 01:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

what oil pump, water pump, and timing belt are you running?
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Old 03-20-2010, 01:48 PM   #16
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

GSR timing belt, 22T vtec water pump, GSR oil pump

It's all the same stuff I used before, just time wont go straight this time.
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Old 03-20-2010, 01:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

might be too obvious as well, but you're not throwing any cel's?
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Old 03-20-2010, 02:09 PM   #18
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

Not throwing any CELs, wish I was.
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Old 03-20-2010, 02:15 PM   #19
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

have you checked to see if you are getting spark to all 4 cylinders? sorry to keep asking a bunch of questions I'm just trying to do a rundown of possibilities.
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Old 03-20-2010, 02:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

Spark plugs keep fouling. Are fouled spark plugs a product of timing being off, or visa versa?
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Old 03-20-2010, 02:22 PM   #21
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

i thought fouled spark plugs was due to too much fuel. maybe you are flooding your engine?
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Old 03-20-2010, 02:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

There is a liquid in there, and when I pulled spark plugs out they were wet, so yes it appears that way.

What can I check?
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Old 03-20-2010, 02:51 PM   #23
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

take the plugs out and let them air dry
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Old 03-20-2010, 02:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

still doesn't fix the fact that he is flooding his motor. you might want to get a fuel pressure gauge to see if your fuel pressure regulator isn't bad.
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Old 03-20-2010, 03:20 PM   #25
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Default Re: LS-VTEC cannot set timing

Here's the latest. Put the mechanical timing back to where it was. It starts and runs, put all brand new plugs in and with the timing light I can see that a couple start firing erratically after less than a minute. Ignition timing is still a little too advanced.

It starts crappy, low RPM, gets better as it runs, then suddenly dies after a few minutes.

Put a screwdriver to each injector/my ear and could hear them opening like they should so...
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