zrickety

iTrader: (1)

I did a quick search but didn't see any mileage numbers... can anyone who's done the swap on a B16 tranny tell me the MPG difference??

I'm seriously considering the swap but I'd like to hear some personal experiences with the mileage. Thanks all

StorminMatt

Honestly, the difference is probably not going to be very large.

ZeroTraction

This myth will never die.
There is no difference, point blank. Look at the mpg ratings for a type r and an ls, and tell me the difference. Most people see gas milage increase with shorter gears.

StorminMatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZeroTraction &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This myth will never die.
There is no difference, point blank. Look at the mpg ratings for a type r and an ls, and tell me the difference. Most people see gas milage increase with shorter gears.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ALOT of this also depends on the design of the engine. And DOHC VTEC engines were not designed around low RPM cruising.

ComeOnKip

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ALOT of this also depends on the design of the engine. And DOHC VTEC engines were not designed around low RPM cruising.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've found the same with my own car.... shifting at 3.5k ~ 4k rpms nets me better gas mileage. Seems to make sense tho, where your motor is efficient is more important to gas mileage then the actual rpm.

JG90CRX-Si

From what I've read, it's not so much of the gas you'll be saving, it's the high RPM range you will get rid of in your LS fifth gear instead of the stock gear.

I've got the JDM S1/J1 and doing 80 and around 4500RPM could be anoying with a bad exhaust. My rex is not a DD and I slapped on my silencer so it's not an issue, even without the silencer it's not that bad.

JG

Gearspeed-Performance

iTrader: (1)

Keep in mind also that if you have a 1st GEN B16 swap....The USDM LS 5th gears are obsolete from Honda/Acura and no longer available. You will need to source a good used set.

If it is a YS-1/92-up B Series you can use USDM LS 92-up and those are readily available.

Crx Jimmy

If I were to do it again I would put a gsr 5th in. I put the ls 5th in and unless you are planning on going 90mph for a long while its not too much better. it lacks power in 5th especially with a torque less b16.

Gearspeed-Performance

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crx Jimmy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If I were to do it again I would put a gsr 5th in. I put the ls 5th in and unless you are planning on going 90mph for a long while its not too much better. it lacks power in 5th especially with a torque less b16. </TD></TR></TABLE>

SIred91

Tell me what the difference is between a B16A S1 trans and an S1 trans out of a USDM 90 integra.......

Is there a difference?

Malgerus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SIred91 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tell me what the difference is between a B16A S1 trans and an S1 trans out of a USDM 90 integra.......

Is there a difference?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, LS trannies are much taller. They both have 4.4 FD, but the gears themselves are different.

SIred91

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Malgerus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes, LS trannies are much taller. They both have 4.4 FD, but the gears themselves are different.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

So the S1 can be either transmission?

Reason being is that I have both trans....and S1 from a teg and an S1 from a SIR crx.........

I wanted to do the 5th gear swap but got confused because they both say S1....

.Manny.

iTrader: (1)

I get more MPG by driving like a grandma.

i skip gears when i drive too. 1-3-5. b20 FTW!

i know i know, but it helps keep me sane. 2 shifts &gt; 4shifts

Malgerus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SIred91 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So the S1 can be either transmission?

Reason being is that I have both trans....and S1 from a teg and an S1 from a SIR crx.........

I wanted to do the 5th gear swap but got confused because they both say S1.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

As far as I know, the JDM S1/J1 (basically the same thing) came from the 89-91 JDM Integra. The JDM CRX SiR's came with Y1's.

Yeah, don't be fooled by the name on the LS tranny. It shares the same basic construction - input shaft size, etc - but the gear ratios are completely different. I put a 90-91 USDM S1 5th gear on my JDM S1 and it made a huge difference in 5th gear cruising RPM

zrickety

iTrader: (1)

Ok i appreciate the input. the B16s definitely run better in high rpm, i was just concerned that around 75 my vtec wants to kick in, depending on how i'm driving. i'm going to stick with the stock gears.

i was able to source the gears new tho...an online acura dealer. had them in my 'shopping cart' and they just wanted payment. expensive, but i've decided not to swap anyway.

thanks again fellas!

StorminMatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zrickety &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok i appreciate the input. the B16s definitely run better in high rpm, i was just concerned that around 75 my vtec wants to kick in, depending on how i'm driving. i'm going to stick with the stock gears.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're getting VTEC at 75MPH, then something is up. Either someone chipped the ECU to go into VTEC at a MUCH lower RPM. Or someone changed the final drive in your transmission. Because with my S1 transmission, I don't hit VTEC (5500RPM) until around 90MPH.

zrickety

iTrader: (1)

it's about 5200 rpm at 75mph...depending on where i have the throttle, the vtec will kick in. i can go 80 or so if i'm gentle with the pedal, closer to your 5500 rpm. pretty sure it's a stock ecu, i've got 3 that came with the car

Gearspeed-Performance

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zrickety &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's about 5200 rpm at 75mph...depending on where i have the throttle, the vtec will kick in. i can go 80 or so if i'm gentle with the pedal, closer to your 5500 rpm. pretty sure it's a stock ecu, i've got 3 that came with the car</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not to sure about that...must be something wrong. Since I have done nothing but Honda/Acura Transmissions for the past 6 years...I can tell you this. My setup was a Type R gear stack with a 4.78 final drive and with 15 inch rims I was

4800 RPMs at 80mph

The Type R as you know is a very short gear stack and then add the 4.78 final on top of that.

The J-1 and S-1 are only 4.4 final drives....might wanna check your tach Unless you just happen to get a swap that had a 4.9 final drive to be able to be at 5200 Rpms when at 75mph.....

davens

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZeroTraction &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Look at the mpg ratings for a type r and an ls, and tell me the difference. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Flawed logic. Different engines, gears, and final drives. The combo of all three produces the mpg rating for each model...saying to compare a stock LS and and a ITR doesn't prove anything.

Use one of the transmission calculators so you swap individual components for a true comparison. Then you'll start realizing there are so many frickin' variables its impossible to say "LS 5th gear is a generally good (or bad) idea."

I put a 90-91 LS 5th on a y1 tranny. This gives a lower rpm 5th than a stock LS.
It does nothing for me around town. However...on a freeway trip where I can get into 5th gear for more than a couple of minutes, the savings start to slowly accumulate. The mpg savings are worth mentioning, but the real benefit for me is not listening to my engine wail at 4500+ for hours at a time.

zrickety

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Special Projects MS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not to sure about that...must be something wrong. Since I have done nothing but Honda/Acura Transmissions for the past 6 years...I can tell you this. My setup was a Type R gear stack with a 4.78 final drive and with 15 inch rims I was

4800 RPMs at 80mph

The Type R as you know is a very short gear stack and then add the 4.78 final on top of that.

The J-1 and S-1 are only 4.4 final drives....might wanna check your tach Unless you just happen to get a swap that had a 4.9 final drive to be able to be at 5200 Rpms when at 75mph.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well here's the thing: I drove from NY to Ohio to get the car, and at the time I had an 01 Jetta Wolfsburg. I called my buddy to check our speed, making sure the swap was correct. It was, MPH was spot on.
As for the tach, it works from idle to the end, 8000 or so, and i'm simply assuming it's correct.
As for the trans...the sticker on the housing is no longer legible, so your guess is as good as mine. are there any stampings or other ways to distinguish my tranny??

As a side note, the whole trip back from OH is was kicking out of 5th. I thought it was the short shifter (kid installed BACKWARDS). It was touching the console. Turns out, trans had NO oil in it!! God knows how miles it took that abuse. Kid was like 'it never popped outta gear on me.' So i topped it off and it's been good since, just runs at a high rpm. not really a big diff between 4th and 5th gears. that was 2 years ago and it still hasn't kicked out of gear.

EF9SIRJeff

Umm Yeah NOT A MYTH


my room mate has the LS 5th in his YS1 and Saves TONS and TONS of gas with it

Plus its really nice not to be at 4200 RPMs at 70 mph in 5th gear ( thats where i currently am @ 70 in my YS1 so i never take the freeway anywhere)

zrickety

iTrader: (1)

what exactly is your roommate driving? does he ever figure his actual gas mileage? does he know pre-swap vs post-swap?? that's what i want to know

EF9SIRJeff

well i would have to ask him hes a total MPG freak so im sure he knows it but i dont right off the top of my head but he said it was well worth it in the long run

Plus when hes cruising in town he uses 5th all the time even at 35 MPH for gas saving too

jdmboyef9

I'm doing this very swap this weekend. I have a jdm YS1 XSi (same as 92-93 gsr) and I'm rebuilding it and swapping the 5th gear out of my spare usdm ys1 ls. I was previously getting 25-26mpg with the XSi, however, the transmission repair guy said that my 5th gear was already swapped out with a shorter one.

ZeroTraction

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by davens &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Flawed logic. Different engines, gears, and final drives. The combo of all three produces the mpg rating for each model...saying to compare a stock LS and and a ITR doesn't prove anything.

Use one of the transmission calculators so you swap individual components for a true comparison. Then you'll start realizing there are so many frickin' variables its impossible to say "LS 5th gear is a generally good (or bad) idea."

I put a 90-91 LS 5th on a y1 tranny. This gives a lower rpm 5th than a stock LS.
It does nothing for me around town. However...on a freeway trip where I can get into 5th gear for more than a couple of minutes, the savings start to slowly accumulate. The mpg savings are worth mentioning, but the real benefit for me is not listening to my engine wail at 4500+ for hours at a time.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dude they really aren't that different don't "Flawed Logic" me. Final Drive means nothing to mpg and neither does the transmission. You have a point with the engines but not even that is much different under less than WOT conditions.

And no RPM means practically nothing compared to load. Your imagining savings with your flawed logic. Go take a look at a stock fuel map on a honda ecu sometime.