Randysi

Title says it all. When I press the brake pedal a few times the idle goes up from 1000 to 1500. and when the car is warm 1500 to like 2000rpm+.

I just bled my brakes today. The pedal is still going almost all the way to the floor. But when I press it to the floor, the brakes will lock up.

I suppose I bled them good. There was no air bubbles coming out, just streams of good brake fluid.

Is there any sign of a bad master cylinder or maybe a brake booster?

EF9_TryMe

How did you bleed them ?

Describe the bleeding procedure used.

slowcivic2k

Take a pair of hose pliers and clamp off the vacuum booster line and recheck the condition, sounds like you have a break in the booster diaphragm or seal, if so replace it and inspect for brake fluid leakage inside the opening, if so replace master cylinder.

Why did you bleed the brakes today? What did you think was wrong, or more correctly, what is your brake pedal doing?

What kinda car is this?

crvtectim

Inspect the brake booster's vac line for a crack causing a vac leak too.

Randysi

Well at first I did rr, fl, rl, fr. pumped the pedal 10 times then cracked the bleed then closed the let off pedal. did that 3 or 4 times each corner. the second time I did farthest to closest to the master cylinder because it worked fine on my buddies teg we did right before mine.

89 civic si

I took the line off and from what I remember it was sucking my finger into the whole on the booster. friend was in the car maybe pushing the pedal? I guess that might cause it to suck in? Idk if that makes sense though?

Randysi

seal you are talking about correct?

Tyson

your pedal is going to the floor because you didnt bleed properly... still. keep doing it until no air comes out. your method is fine, except just pump 3 times in between cracking the line, no need for 10.

the idle going up is because you have a bad booster, or check valve. air is somehow getting into the manifold thru your booster. you ought to look into that.



and yeah, double check theres only one of those washers in there. sometime theyre stuck inside the booster and you dont see it.

Randysi

Alright so in what order should I bleed? And washer? What washer?


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Tyson

it doesnt matter what the order is. ppl make a big deal about it, it just doesnt matter. as long as you do a good job at each end, youre fine. go around twice to be sure. tap the metal lines to get any air that is being troublesome and sticking around a corner.

but clearly you have air in your system.

i mean seal, the rubber seal/washer. same thing you have pictured.

Black R

Idle should go up when you pump the brakes then settle back to normal.

Spug

I use a one person bleeder made from a peanut butter jar and some fish tank hose.

Open bleeder, put hose on, pump pedal until there are no bubbles in the clear hose, close bleeder.

Randysi

Alright update. I bled the system again. Bled all four wheels. Cracked the line 10 times at each wheel. Air came out of the front left. But none of the others. Went around cracking them all again 7 more times each. And nothing but streams of brake fluid. Brake pedal still goes to the floor when the car is on and driving. Still lock up. When i have the brakes locked up, the car slowly starts rolling. I let go and press the pedal again. Stops. Then slowly goes again and this happens untill the brakes wont lock up anymore. Still air in the lines? Could a bad master cylinder cause this?


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Randysi

By the way everything checked out okay in that chart you gave me


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lostforawhile

you need to bleed the brakes diagonally,this has to do with the proportioning valve, left front right rear right front left rear, also you are bleeding them wrong, you need to pour some brake fluid in a glass jar and then you need a piece of hose that fits tightly over the bleeder screw, the end of the hose goes in the brake fluid in the jar, it has to stay submerged, you crack the bleeder with the hose attached, then the brake pedal gets pumped until you don't see any air. You really need two people to do it right, the fluid in the jar stops air bubbles from going back into the system, the air bubbles rise. When you do this get a lot of brake fluid and keep pumping until all the fluid is clear, you will be amazed at all the crap that comes out. Don't forget to keep checking the master cylinder, if you run it dry you will have to remove it and bench bleed it.
the seal in the picture is the dust seal, it doesn't actually keep brake fluid in,but what happens is the rear seal in the master cylinder fails, then the fluid gets into the booster and eats the diaphragm

lostforawhile

master cylinder is bad, don't forget when you get a new one you HAVE to bench bleed it, there should be instructions on how to do this with it, as well as a couple of plastic fittings to screw in the ports, the booster pushrod isn't long enough to bleed the master,it has to be done off of the car. If you see fluid in the booster pushrod area,might as well get anther one, it may not have failed yet but it will, if both the booster and master are replaced, you MUST make sure the booster pushrod length is right, if it isn't it can ruin your new master

Tyson

How about the idle issue? That's more of a clue where to look for a leak, that is ur master cylinder. So sure, if ur mc is bad, of course you won't get a firm pedal.

If there's no obvious leaks, like the rear slave cylinders, that only means the mc.

lostforawhile

if the idle goes up when the pedal is pressed thats probably a leaking booster, very common if fluid has leaked out of the master cylinder

Randysi

Thanks for all the help guys. As of right now I dont have the cash for another master cylinder but I do have a master and booster off another ef hatch that was known working. So ill try that one out. And hopefully everything goes well.


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Swap'DShuttle

If not mentioned earlier, be sure to bench bleed the master cyl before you install it. Hoses from m-c lines running back into resivour and pump the m-c with anything that works. I have the same issue after bench bleeding and properly bleeding the whole system twice, think it could be as simple as the little check valve as well.

Randysi

So your saying my whole problem here could be because of the check valve?

lostforawhile

the brakes creeping after you step on them has nothing to do with the valve,thats caused by bad internal master cylinder seals, you can still stop the car with a bad booster it will just take longer and be harder to stop, but once you are stopped the brakes should hold the car with no issues

Randysi

So I swapped my master cylinder and booster for a known working one. I bled the brakes by myself. with a piece of tube that fits snug over the bleeder screw. into a bottle full of brake fluid. Made sure no air got back into the line. I pumped the pedal about 50 times each corner. also checking my fluid level along the way. topped it off everytime it was half full. My brakes still go almost all the way to the floor and still lock up when I press them to the floor. The master cylinder was sitting for like a month and a half. could it have gone bad somehow? I dont understand whats wrong with the brakes? I bench bled the master cylinder like eric the car guy does on his video on youtube.

lostforawhile

I didn't see the video, but is he running the two pieces of tube,one from each port back into the master and pushing in the rod all the way while it's off the car to bleed out the air?

lostforawhile

what was the condition of the master cyl rear seal anyway? was it leaking into the old booster? just wondering.

Tyson

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/maste.../howworks.html