B16A OBD1 VSS Code 17 Fix
05-30-2004, 07:30 PM
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Re: B16A OBD1 VSS Code 17 Fix (michaelOlson)
nice find on how to make a OBD1 E-VSS to work on a OBD0 speedo cable to work on a speedo cluster.
i learned how to wire in a E-VSS into my JDM EF8 cluster, and basicly transforms the cable to wires.
very simple. power, ground, and signal. signal went to ECU pin, thus went to cluster. thats all. not that hard.
but good find on E-VSS on a cable driven cluster. never though of that.
i learned how to wire in a E-VSS into my JDM EF8 cluster, and basicly transforms the cable to wires.
very simple. power, ground, and signal. signal went to ECU pin, thus went to cluster. thats all. not that hard.
but good find on E-VSS on a cable driven cluster. never though of that.
08-12-2004, 01:40 PM
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so.. you're trying to lower the current from the vss pulse signal from the obd-0 cluster to mimic that which the obd1 ecu is expecting to see?
i dont understand (if that 4th screw on the vss is the VSS output) how a wire there would lower the current? should it not be inline between the output and the input of the ecu?
i dont understand (if that 4th screw on the vss is the VSS output) how a wire there would lower the current? should it not be inline between the output and the input of the ecu?
08-12-2004, 07:35 PM
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Re: (MikeySpec)
Updated writeup my dad did a while back I forgot about.
http://www.classictiger.com/ho...s.htm
Crx_88_si : One of those screws does go back to the ecu.
http://www.classictiger.com/ho...s.htm
Crx_88_si : One of those screws does go back to the ecu.
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08-20-2004, 04:04 PM
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Re: (michaelOlson)
That's weird...
My 92-95 Civic shop manual says that the YELLOW/WHITE wire should pulse between between 0-5V However, that wire turns out into YELLOW-BLUE later on the circuit diagram...
The VSS testing procedure looks like this:
(with connector unplugged)
1- Check for continuity between body ground and BLACK wire
2- Measure voltage between YELLOW-BLUE wire and body groung (should be 12V)
3- Measure voltage between YELLOW-WHITE wire and body ground (should be 5V)
Replug the connector
4- turn one wheel of the car and measure voltage between YELLOW-WHITE wire and body ground. The voltage should pulse between 0 and 5V
That's it
Since the YELLOW-WHITE wire is connected to the ECU directly, whouldn't the ECU need a 5V pulse????
I am trying to convert my car to OBD-1 and I want to solve any issues before doing this.
Any help would be appreciated.
My 92-95 Civic shop manual says that the YELLOW/WHITE wire should pulse between between 0-5V However, that wire turns out into YELLOW-BLUE later on the circuit diagram...
The VSS testing procedure looks like this:
(with connector unplugged)
1- Check for continuity between body ground and BLACK wire
2- Measure voltage between YELLOW-BLUE wire and body groung (should be 12V)
3- Measure voltage between YELLOW-WHITE wire and body ground (should be 5V)
Replug the connector
4- turn one wheel of the car and measure voltage between YELLOW-WHITE wire and body ground. The voltage should pulse between 0 and 5V
That's it
Since the YELLOW-WHITE wire is connected to the ECU directly, whouldn't the ECU need a 5V pulse????
I am trying to convert my car to OBD-1 and I want to solve any issues before doing this.
Any help would be appreciated.
09-01-2004, 12:20 AM
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Re: B16A OBD1 VSS Code 17 Fix (michaelOlson)
It might just be my cluster or something.
The one in this write-up is an 88 and mines a 91 so they may be different.
Tonight I went to add a pull-up resistor to my car.
I took a look at this write-up and went outside, took out my cluster and gathered the wiring supplies.
By that time I had forgotten exactly which terminals to connect to.
Since I was in the garage, I took a look at my Helms to see if I could figure out the connections. The one from the speed sensor to the ECU was easy.
The 12v wasn't too hard either.
After I figured out where my 12v was supposed to come from I came inside and checked this write-up just to make sure.
Something just didn't feel right.
This is what I found -
The terminal shown being used in this write-up would actually be the fuel level sensor on my cluster. It is clearly marked with an "F" for fuel on the back of the cluster.
The terminal just up to the left of that one is ground. It's marked with a "-".
The topmost of the 3 terminals that are grouped together there is actualy the 12v supply. It has a "+".
If I were to follow the pictures in this post I would have wired up to the "F".
I'm hoping that the 88 cluster is just different and it's actually "+" and not "F" like it is on mine.
So, I wired up to the 12v one with the "+" and hooked it to the 680,000 ohm resistor.
I finished it up and put it all back together.
It's really too late for me to go give it a functional try so it will have to wait until tomorrow.
Hopefully before I get out there somebody will have cleared this up.
The one in this write-up is an 88 and mines a 91 so they may be different.
Tonight I went to add a pull-up resistor to my car.
I took a look at this write-up and went outside, took out my cluster and gathered the wiring supplies.
By that time I had forgotten exactly which terminals to connect to.
Since I was in the garage, I took a look at my Helms to see if I could figure out the connections. The one from the speed sensor to the ECU was easy.
The 12v wasn't too hard either.
After I figured out where my 12v was supposed to come from I came inside and checked this write-up just to make sure.
Something just didn't feel right.
This is what I found -
The terminal shown being used in this write-up would actually be the fuel level sensor on my cluster. It is clearly marked with an "F" for fuel on the back of the cluster.
The terminal just up to the left of that one is ground. It's marked with a "-".
The topmost of the 3 terminals that are grouped together there is actualy the 12v supply. It has a "+".
If I were to follow the pictures in this post I would have wired up to the "F".
I'm hoping that the 88 cluster is just different and it's actually "+" and not "F" like it is on mine.
So, I wired up to the 12v one with the "+" and hooked it to the 680,000 ohm resistor.
I finished it up and put it all back together.
It's really too late for me to go give it a functional try so it will have to wait until tomorrow.
Hopefully before I get out there somebody will have cleared this up.
09-01-2004, 12:03 PM
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Re: B16A OBD1 VSS Code 17 Fix (MikeySpec)
I wish somebody could look at an 88 cluster and let me know what's up.
Even an 88 Helms would do it.
I really only need a simple pic or scan of the wiring diagram for the cluster.
Or if the 88 has the sybols I described, just if the one shows a "+" next to it of an "F".
Even an 88 Helms would do it.
I really only need a simple pic or scan of the wiring diagram for the cluster.
Or if the 88 has the sybols I described, just if the one shows a "+" next to it of an "F".
09-01-2004, 12:33 PM
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Re: B16A OBD1 VSS Code 17 Fix (4drEF)
so im still confused on what the point of this is? is this to use the electronic VSS? do you still use the cable VSS and you did this to just trick the ecu? someone please explain.
cause im running a cable vss with an obd1 ecu and no codes...
cause im running a cable vss with an obd1 ecu and no codes...
09-01-2004, 01:03 PM
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Re: (carotman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carotman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's weird...
My 92-95 Civic shop manual says that the YELLOW/WHITE wire should pulse between between 0-5V However, that wire turns out into YELLOW-BLUE later on the circuit diagram...
... ...
Since the YELLOW-WHITE wire is connected to the ECU directly, whouldn't the ECU need a 5V pulse????
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't know what book you are using, but I looked into testing the VSS in a HELMS for the EG (pages 11-74 and 11-75) and it says 0~12v pulses when you spin the wheel.
I do know that the Accord has a 5v speed sensor.
I have no idea where your book is getting the 5v test from???
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRCRXsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so im still confused on what the point of this is? is this to use the electronic VSS? do you still use the cable VSS and you did this to just trick the ecu? someone please explain.
cause im running a cable vss with an obd1 ecu and no codes...</TD></TR></TABLE>
This mod is so you do NOT have to use the electronic tranny mounted VSS.
Our 88~91 cars that we converted to JDM ECU's, or OBD-1 emissions need an electronic VSS mounted in the tranny that supplies 12 volt pulse signal to the ECU.
Why not just get the electronic tranny mounted VSS then?
Well, if you convert to the tranny mounted VSS you can't use your stock gauge cluster. Stock speedo has uses a cable drive going to a gear in the tranny to spin the speedo. The cars with the tranny mounted electronic VSS don't have the cable drive and they use an electronic speedo.
Ok - fine - don't use the tranny VSS and just use the stock VSS on the back of the gauge cluster. Won't that work??
Nope... that doesn't work. The stock VSS provides a GROUND (0 volts) pulse signal rather than the 12 volt signal the ECU needs.
So, to keep the stock gauge cluster with it's VSS and cable drive ssytem you need to trick the JDM or OBD-1 ECU into seeing 12 volt pulses rather than GROUND pulses.
No codes in your car??? What ECU?
Is it chipped?
I got the VSS code - wires are 100% correct and a VTEC CEL too because VTEC won't work without VSS.
My 92-95 Civic shop manual says that the YELLOW/WHITE wire should pulse between between 0-5V However, that wire turns out into YELLOW-BLUE later on the circuit diagram...
... ...
Since the YELLOW-WHITE wire is connected to the ECU directly, whouldn't the ECU need a 5V pulse????
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't know what book you are using, but I looked into testing the VSS in a HELMS for the EG (pages 11-74 and 11-75) and it says 0~12v pulses when you spin the wheel.
I do know that the Accord has a 5v speed sensor.
I have no idea where your book is getting the 5v test from???
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRCRXsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so im still confused on what the point of this is? is this to use the electronic VSS? do you still use the cable VSS and you did this to just trick the ecu? someone please explain.
cause im running a cable vss with an obd1 ecu and no codes...</TD></TR></TABLE>
This mod is so you do NOT have to use the electronic tranny mounted VSS.
Our 88~91 cars that we converted to JDM ECU's, or OBD-1 emissions need an electronic VSS mounted in the tranny that supplies 12 volt pulse signal to the ECU.
Why not just get the electronic tranny mounted VSS then?
Well, if you convert to the tranny mounted VSS you can't use your stock gauge cluster. Stock speedo has uses a cable drive going to a gear in the tranny to spin the speedo. The cars with the tranny mounted electronic VSS don't have the cable drive and they use an electronic speedo.
Ok - fine - don't use the tranny VSS and just use the stock VSS on the back of the gauge cluster. Won't that work??
Nope... that doesn't work. The stock VSS provides a GROUND (0 volts) pulse signal rather than the 12 volt signal the ECU needs.
So, to keep the stock gauge cluster with it's VSS and cable drive ssytem you need to trick the JDM or OBD-1 ECU into seeing 12 volt pulses rather than GROUND pulses.
No codes in your car??? What ECU?
Is it chipped?
I got the VSS code - wires are 100% correct and a VTEC CEL too because VTEC won't work without VSS.
09-01-2004, 08:08 PM
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Ok - I tried it out today.
No CEL when I drove down the street.
Early yesterday I was getting VSS code and it's gone now!
VTEC's there now - pulled strong all the way up!
No CEL when I drove down the street.
Early yesterday I was getting VSS code and it's gone now!
VTEC's there now - pulled strong all the way up!
09-02-2004, 11:56 AM
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Re: (GSRCRXsi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRCRXsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh, so how come mine doesnt throw a code? i have no resistor. cable speedo. obd1 gsr engine. obd1 p72 ecu not chipped.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No freaking clue.
No freaking clue.
09-04-2004, 04:29 PM
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Re: (GSRCRXsi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRCRXsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh, so how come mine doesnt throw a code? i have no resistor. cable speedo. obd1 gsr engine. obd1 p72 ecu not chipped.</TD></TR></TABLE>
same here.
I'm wondering if the P72 just looks for the VSS signal to be grounded out. I'm tempted to try to ground the VSS signal wire and see if anything happens (or doesn't happen).
my problem is i'm running full autometer gauges and can't run the speed pulsar sensor on the back of the autometer speedo. the speed pulsar is just a large round magnet that, when spun, pulls the pulsar wires together to complete the circuit.
Maybe people are wrong about the OBD0 speed pulsar... maybe it supplies voltage, rather than is grounded when the magnet is spinning.
same here.
I'm wondering if the P72 just looks for the VSS signal to be grounded out. I'm tempted to try to ground the VSS signal wire and see if anything happens (or doesn't happen).
my problem is i'm running full autometer gauges and can't run the speed pulsar sensor on the back of the autometer speedo. the speed pulsar is just a large round magnet that, when spun, pulls the pulsar wires together to complete the circuit.
Maybe people are wrong about the OBD0 speed pulsar... maybe it supplies voltage, rather than is grounded when the magnet is spinning.
09-05-2004, 11:06 AM
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Re: (Driven)
More info...
currently, i have my OEM '91 dash gauge cluster bolted to the car.
i have the speedo cable hooked up and the VSS Pulsar wire. THAT'S IT. ONE WIRE hooked up to the gauge cluster. the VSS has a signal to the ecu, ecu is none-the-wiser and says, "hey vtec, commence to work!".
My guess is, the ecu is sending the VSS the signal. the VSS then grounds it or applies a voltage to it, but if i don't have any power going to the gauge cluster how would it work...
mind you, this is for a p72
currently, i have my OEM '91 dash gauge cluster bolted to the car.
i have the speedo cable hooked up and the VSS Pulsar wire. THAT'S IT. ONE WIRE hooked up to the gauge cluster. the VSS has a signal to the ecu, ecu is none-the-wiser and says, "hey vtec, commence to work!".
My guess is, the ecu is sending the VSS the signal. the VSS then grounds it or applies a voltage to it, but if i don't have any power going to the gauge cluster how would it work...
mind you, this is for a p72
09-05-2004, 12:45 PM
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Re: (93civic_sedan)
My dad says the p72 ecu may have a pullup resistor inside of it. If that is the case then it should work without throwing codes with either style of vss. Has anyone with a p72 ecu seen code 17 in a swap? 4drEF is your ecu a p30? Also, the 6k ohm resistor seems to work most reliably.
