d16a6 weird cooling system problem
11-02-2009, 07:51 AM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
d16a6 weird cooling system problem
long story short, i swapped out water pumps due to faulty weep hole. NOW when i start up the car, the water in my reseviour starts to bubble and overflow. its almost as if the water is being pumped in the oposite direction!
i also have water in the exhaust system, white smoke coming out of the muffler. the water pump IS installed correctly so i dont know whats going on. i havent had these problems before.
another thought would be faulty thermo? if the thing fails, it WONT allow for water to pass thru into the block right?
let me know what you guys think.
i also have water in the exhaust system, white smoke coming out of the muffler. the water pump IS installed correctly so i dont know whats going on. i havent had these problems before.
another thought would be faulty thermo? if the thing fails, it WONT allow for water to pass thru into the block right?
let me know what you guys think.
11-02-2009, 10:36 AM
#3
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Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
Did you happen to overheat the motor before you changed out the pump?
Everything you are describing sounds like you blew the head gasket... common issue with overheating.
Take all 4 spark plugs out and do a compression check.
Everything you are describing sounds like you blew the head gasket... common issue with overheating.
Take all 4 spark plugs out and do a compression check.
11-02-2009, 03:07 PM
#5
EFB055
Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
It really is pointing toward a head gasket.
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11-02-2009, 07:48 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
i took off the head earlier, holy **** two of the cylinders were filled with coolant/water. anyways the head gasket was partially melted and warped but i think that was the problem.
on the other hand, wtf is up with my water pump? its like it wasnt pumping the water cuz i overheated like 5 miles driving with the new pump! i took taht think out and im exchanging it with another tomorrow. more details over the next few days.
on the other hand, wtf is up with my water pump? its like it wasnt pumping the water cuz i overheated like 5 miles driving with the new pump! i took taht think out and im exchanging it with another tomorrow. more details over the next few days.
11-02-2009, 08:37 PM
#9
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Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
Pump was probably working. You will overheat fast when you have a blown head gasket.
Also, since you overheated, replace your thermostat. They are sort of fragile and should be replaced when you overheat.
Also, since you overheated, replace your thermostat. They are sort of fragile and should be replaced when you overheat.
11-03-2009, 08:05 AM
#10
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Thread Starter
Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
it was a scary sight seeing the cylinders topped off with water but i managed to get them as dry as i could. using a shop vac with an air compressor seemed to blow out / suck out everything that was in there. also drained the oil.
im just curious why i overheated once i put in a new waterpump, seems like a huge coincedence. i'll be exchanging it for another one at autozone tonight. unfortunately i wont be able to work on the damn thing until friday so no updates until then.
im just curious why i overheated once i put in a new waterpump, seems like a huge coincedence. i'll be exchanging it for another one at autozone tonight. unfortunately i wont be able to work on the damn thing until friday so no updates until then.
11-03-2009, 09:31 AM
#11
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Thread Starter
Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
NOW its got 193k miles....so yea, the distance i travel to work all highway miles is finally taking its toll on the motor.
11-03-2009, 12:00 PM
#12
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Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
im just f'n with you man...i bought my ed3 with 215k and im up to 237k on the stock d15b2 motor but can't shake my code 16 starting problem...!!!
11-03-2009, 12:08 PM
#13
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Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
11-03-2009, 12:18 PM
#14
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Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
well u guys are lucky...im not sure if the a6 motor i have is one of those "jdm low milage" OR just some random a6 taken out of an usdm si or an EX with a shitload of miles on it.
either way, driving 90 miles every week day at freeway speeds cannot be good for a 20 year old engine.
either way, driving 90 miles every week day at freeway speeds cannot be good for a 20 year old engine.
11-03-2009, 12:20 PM
#15
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Thread Starter
Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
now im just so goddamn curious to put on my head gasket and see if that solved my problem! **** looks sick with some new falkens and the alignment finally fixed. i dont get home until its dark now sadly, damn time change!
11-03-2009, 12:47 PM
#17
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Thread Starter
Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
haha yea got that **** last nite! you should see the old one. the EF's had composite gaskets so thats the new one that i got...the old one melted and was stuck to the head, it was obviously GONE so i felt good when i saw that thing all jacked up.
when i hand turn the crank pulley everything is smooth as butter. no noises, rough spots or anything so i know i didnt damage anything on the bottom end.
WORST case scenario, i have to replace the head. if thats the case ill pick up a z6 for cheap on craigs list and just do a mini me.
when i hand turn the crank pulley everything is smooth as butter. no noises, rough spots or anything so i know i didnt damage anything on the bottom end.
WORST case scenario, i have to replace the head. if thats the case ill pick up a z6 for cheap on craigs list and just do a mini me.
11-03-2009, 01:20 PM
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Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
good luck with the swap read up then read up again to make sure you dont mess anything up it is a pain if you do.
eric
eric
11-03-2009, 01:26 PM
#19
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Thread Starter
Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
thanks for the heads up...not too long ago i swapped out a head on my old ls/v dc2. this is cake walk compared to those damn B's. not to mention a lighter head haha.
11-03-2009, 04:18 PM
#20
DO IT ON ALL FOURS
Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
The problem you have described is perfectly normal. Everyone should know this basic piece of information. Your problem was preexisting, but was only masked by your failed water pump. The water pump "weep hole" did not go bad; the packing on the mechanical seal did. This is most likely due to a failing bearing. Since that is covered now, we can move forward.
Let’s look at the cooling system like a tied balloon. It is sealed off and air tight. If you untied it (took off the radiator cap) it would no longer be air tight and the air would escape. So let’s pretend you poked a hole in the balloon and tried to blow it up. What would happen? You would not be able to because the air would escape out; meaning no pressure would build up inside the balloon.
When mass heats up it expands. Of course different masses have different expansion rates, but that does not matter here. On a side note, water pumps are centrifugal pumps (non-positive displacement pump). They are allowed to "slip" in what they are pumping (in this case water/coolant). So when you have a sealed system with the thermostat closed, the pump is not actually fully moving coolant through the system. For the most part it is just sitting still, and the cooling process is being "bypassed". After the thermostat opens it allows the pump to start fully circulating again. Just because the pumps are non-positive displacement pumps does not mean they do not have suction. All pumps have some type of "suction head", otherwise they would not pump anything.
So back to the balloon idea; when the pressure builds up from heat, and in your case “leaking cylinder pressure”, it will follow the path of least resistance. In your case it was the "weep hole" on the water pump. It started pushing past the seal and was effectively your "pin hole in the balloon". Now when you patch that "hole in the balloon" (replace the water pump) and put pressure back in it, you uncovered yet another "hole/leak". In your case it was the head gasket, where the problem before hand was masked because of the water pump.
Now you may say, that does not answer my problem with the air bubbles in the coolant recovery tank. Well actually, this is easily explained. Now that the “back door” is sealed off there is no place for the pressure escaping the cylinder/s to go. The radiator cap is a dual purpose “seal”. It lets excess hydraulic pressure to be bled off, as well as hydraulically “suck” back in coolant as needed.
On a generic lesson/side note: For this process to work there needs to be no air (air of which can be compressed where fluid can “not”). On a side note, in the hydraulic world when you add or take fluid out of a sealed system you have to replace it with something. Since it should be air tight, it would have to be replaced with fluid.
Since your “hydraulic system” (coolant system) was internally leaking air in the form of pressure (which can be in excess of over 200 PSI) into the coolant system the air pressure easily would over power the 16 PSI (or whatever yours is) radiator cap and push through to the coolant reservoir.
Now you may ask, why would it be inconsistent bubbles? Well since all of your cylinders were not “leaking” from a faulty head gasket (and most likely even if they were) the compression stroke only happens once out of every four strokes. So this would lead to the pulsing of the air… and even better your very own “little bubble show” in your coolant reservoir.
So all in all, your problem makes perfect sense and is completely normal for ANY water cooled combustion engine. If you can’t understand this, in this “mind numbing” stupidly easy conveyed way, then you are far, far, far away from being helped.
*** I did NOT reread over this and I somewhat don’t care, if you feel a correction needs to be made then please feel free to cry about it. ***
Let’s look at the cooling system like a tied balloon. It is sealed off and air tight. If you untied it (took off the radiator cap) it would no longer be air tight and the air would escape. So let’s pretend you poked a hole in the balloon and tried to blow it up. What would happen? You would not be able to because the air would escape out; meaning no pressure would build up inside the balloon.
When mass heats up it expands. Of course different masses have different expansion rates, but that does not matter here. On a side note, water pumps are centrifugal pumps (non-positive displacement pump). They are allowed to "slip" in what they are pumping (in this case water/coolant). So when you have a sealed system with the thermostat closed, the pump is not actually fully moving coolant through the system. For the most part it is just sitting still, and the cooling process is being "bypassed". After the thermostat opens it allows the pump to start fully circulating again. Just because the pumps are non-positive displacement pumps does not mean they do not have suction. All pumps have some type of "suction head", otherwise they would not pump anything.
So back to the balloon idea; when the pressure builds up from heat, and in your case “leaking cylinder pressure”, it will follow the path of least resistance. In your case it was the "weep hole" on the water pump. It started pushing past the seal and was effectively your "pin hole in the balloon". Now when you patch that "hole in the balloon" (replace the water pump) and put pressure back in it, you uncovered yet another "hole/leak". In your case it was the head gasket, where the problem before hand was masked because of the water pump.
Now you may say, that does not answer my problem with the air bubbles in the coolant recovery tank. Well actually, this is easily explained. Now that the “back door” is sealed off there is no place for the pressure escaping the cylinder/s to go. The radiator cap is a dual purpose “seal”. It lets excess hydraulic pressure to be bled off, as well as hydraulically “suck” back in coolant as needed.
On a generic lesson/side note: For this process to work there needs to be no air (air of which can be compressed where fluid can “not”). On a side note, in the hydraulic world when you add or take fluid out of a sealed system you have to replace it with something. Since it should be air tight, it would have to be replaced with fluid.
Since your “hydraulic system” (coolant system) was internally leaking air in the form of pressure (which can be in excess of over 200 PSI) into the coolant system the air pressure easily would over power the 16 PSI (or whatever yours is) radiator cap and push through to the coolant reservoir.
Now you may ask, why would it be inconsistent bubbles? Well since all of your cylinders were not “leaking” from a faulty head gasket (and most likely even if they were) the compression stroke only happens once out of every four strokes. So this would lead to the pulsing of the air… and even better your very own “little bubble show” in your coolant reservoir.
So all in all, your problem makes perfect sense and is completely normal for ANY water cooled combustion engine. If you can’t understand this, in this “mind numbing” stupidly easy conveyed way, then you are far, far, far away from being helped.
*** I did NOT reread over this and I somewhat don’t care, if you feel a correction needs to be made then please feel free to cry about it. ***
11-03-2009, 07:15 PM
#22
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
The problem you have described is perfectly normal. Everyone should know this basic piece of information. Your problem was preexisting, but was only masked by your failed water pump. The water pump "weep hole" did not go bad; the packing on the mechanical seal did. This is most likely due to a failing bearing. Since that is covered now, we can move forward.
Let’s look at the cooling system like a tied balloon. It is sealed off and air tight. If you untied it (took off the radiator cap) it would no longer be air tight and the air would escape. So let’s pretend you poked a hole in the balloon and tried to blow it up. What would happen? You would not be able to because the air would escape out; meaning no pressure would build up inside the balloon.
When mass heats up it expands. Of course different masses have different expansion rates, but that does not matter here. On a side note, water pumps are centrifugal pumps (non-positive displacement pump). They are allowed to "slip" in what they are pumping (in this case water/coolant). So when you have a sealed system with the thermostat closed, the pump is not actually fully moving coolant through the system. For the most part it is just sitting still, and the cooling process is being "bypassed". After the thermostat opens it allows the pump to start fully circulating again. Just because the pumps are non-positive displacement pumps does not mean they do not have suction. All pumps have some type of "suction head", otherwise they would not pump anything.
So back to the balloon idea; when the pressure builds up from heat, and in your case “leaking cylinder pressure”, it will follow the path of least resistance. In your case it was the "weep hole" on the water pump. It started pushing past the seal and was effectively your "pin hole in the balloon". Now when you patch that "hole in the balloon" (replace the water pump) and put pressure back in it, you uncovered yet another "hole/leak". In your case it was the head gasket, where the problem before hand was masked because of the water pump.
Now you may say, that does not answer my problem with the air bubbles in the coolant recovery tank. Well actually, this is easily explained. Now that the “back door” is sealed off there is no place for the pressure escaping the cylinder/s to go. The radiator cap is a dual purpose “seal”. It lets excess hydraulic pressure to be bled off, as well as hydraulically “suck” back in coolant as needed.
On a generic lesson/side note: For this process to work there needs to be no air (air of which can be compressed where fluid can “not”). On a side note, in the hydraulic world when you add or take fluid out of a sealed system you have to replace it with something. Since it should be air tight, it would have to be replaced with fluid.
Since your “hydraulic system” (coolant system) was internally leaking air in the form of pressure (which can be in excess of over 200 PSI) into the coolant system the air pressure easily would over power the 16 PSI (or whatever yours is) radiator cap and push through to the coolant reservoir.
Now you may ask, why would it be inconsistent bubbles? Well since all of your cylinders were not “leaking” from a faulty head gasket (and most likely even if they were) the compression stroke only happens once out of every four strokes. So this would lead to the pulsing of the air… and even better your very own “little bubble show” in your coolant reservoir.
So all in all, your problem makes perfect sense and is completely normal for ANY water cooled combustion engine. If you can’t understand this, in this “mind numbing” stupidly easy conveyed way, then you are far, far, far away from being helped.
*** I did NOT reread over this and I somewhat don’t care, if you feel a correction needs to be made then please feel free to cry about it. ***
Let’s look at the cooling system like a tied balloon. It is sealed off and air tight. If you untied it (took off the radiator cap) it would no longer be air tight and the air would escape. So let’s pretend you poked a hole in the balloon and tried to blow it up. What would happen? You would not be able to because the air would escape out; meaning no pressure would build up inside the balloon.
When mass heats up it expands. Of course different masses have different expansion rates, but that does not matter here. On a side note, water pumps are centrifugal pumps (non-positive displacement pump). They are allowed to "slip" in what they are pumping (in this case water/coolant). So when you have a sealed system with the thermostat closed, the pump is not actually fully moving coolant through the system. For the most part it is just sitting still, and the cooling process is being "bypassed". After the thermostat opens it allows the pump to start fully circulating again. Just because the pumps are non-positive displacement pumps does not mean they do not have suction. All pumps have some type of "suction head", otherwise they would not pump anything.
So back to the balloon idea; when the pressure builds up from heat, and in your case “leaking cylinder pressure”, it will follow the path of least resistance. In your case it was the "weep hole" on the water pump. It started pushing past the seal and was effectively your "pin hole in the balloon". Now when you patch that "hole in the balloon" (replace the water pump) and put pressure back in it, you uncovered yet another "hole/leak". In your case it was the head gasket, where the problem before hand was masked because of the water pump.
Now you may say, that does not answer my problem with the air bubbles in the coolant recovery tank. Well actually, this is easily explained. Now that the “back door” is sealed off there is no place for the pressure escaping the cylinder/s to go. The radiator cap is a dual purpose “seal”. It lets excess hydraulic pressure to be bled off, as well as hydraulically “suck” back in coolant as needed.
On a generic lesson/side note: For this process to work there needs to be no air (air of which can be compressed where fluid can “not”). On a side note, in the hydraulic world when you add or take fluid out of a sealed system you have to replace it with something. Since it should be air tight, it would have to be replaced with fluid.
Since your “hydraulic system” (coolant system) was internally leaking air in the form of pressure (which can be in excess of over 200 PSI) into the coolant system the air pressure easily would over power the 16 PSI (or whatever yours is) radiator cap and push through to the coolant reservoir.
Now you may ask, why would it be inconsistent bubbles? Well since all of your cylinders were not “leaking” from a faulty head gasket (and most likely even if they were) the compression stroke only happens once out of every four strokes. So this would lead to the pulsing of the air… and even better your very own “little bubble show” in your coolant reservoir.
So all in all, your problem makes perfect sense and is completely normal for ANY water cooled combustion engine. If you can’t understand this, in this “mind numbing” stupidly easy conveyed way, then you are far, far, far away from being helped.
*** I did NOT reread over this and I somewhat don’t care, if you feel a correction needs to be made then please feel free to cry about it. ***
11-03-2009, 09:38 PM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
long story short, i swapped out water pumps due to faulty weep hole. NOW when i start up the car, the water in my reseviour starts to bubble and overflow. its almost as if the water is being pumped in the oposite direction!
i also have water in the exhaust system, white smoke coming out of the muffler. the water pump IS installed correctly so i dont know whats going on. i havent had these problems before.
another thought would be faulty thermo? if the thing fails, it WONT allow for water to pass thru into the block right?
let me know what you guys think.
i also have water in the exhaust system, white smoke coming out of the muffler. the water pump IS installed correctly so i dont know whats going on. i havent had these problems before.
another thought would be faulty thermo? if the thing fails, it WONT allow for water to pass thru into the block right?
let me know what you guys think.
11-04-2009, 03:56 AM
#24
DO IT ON ALL FOURS
Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
Well, hmmm I wasn't trying to direct it towards you. I worded it wrong; I wanted to insult any person that is helpless. So if you were, offended directly, then I am sorry. Obviously you can repair a head gasket yourself, so I would hope you could understand what I took the time to write. I am trying to curve myself to be a non-******* and share my knowledge; I just can't be completely nice, it is not in my nature. Either way, glad I could help you.
11-04-2009, 06:47 AM
#25
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: d16a6 weird cooling system problem
well anyways, got my car in the garage last night, cant work on it until tonight tho due to work. im gonna slap on the water pump and start putting **** back together. i have a question tho, since i dont have the outer timing belt cover, how can i match up the TDC on the crank pulley? i know how to do the cam gear but not sure about the pulley, yes i know its the single mark not the 3 marks that needs to be lined up.