ZHoob2004

So I somewhat recently bought a b16a swapped crx and the previous owner removed the a/c system when he did the swap. I took a recent trip to the junkyard to get the a/c parts and came back with a complete 89 DX system to bolt in. Now a few questions:

The DX had a Matsushita compressor while my crx came originally with a sanden unit. I hear the sanden units are quieter/lighter/smaller/less load and typically recommended. Is are there any cars other than 88-91 civic/crx that I could get a sanden unit and compatible hoses from?

Question 2 is the crx is an r12 system. Should I go ahead and convert to r134a or go for an r12 substitute? I'll likely have it professionally done (flush/fill, I'll do the wrenching)

Just reading the old crx threads has been a great help to me so far so I hope someone can help me here too

James89DX

You should buy a new Sanden. Sanden's were more common by far so really if you were hell bent on using a used unit, just keep checking around JY's for EF's and CRX's and you'll come across one. I would be surprised if any of them AREN'T leaking at the shaft seal though hence my recommendation for a new unit.

The Chinese clone Sanden units are actually pretty good these days and I'd recommend that over a rebuilt unit.

If you do decide to go with a Sanden you will need Sanden-specific suction and discharge lines. They're different between the two compressors.

Yes the CRX and EF were factory R12. Highly highly highly recommend you stay R12 if at all possible. It's a bit of a myth that R12 is obsolete. It can be had all day on eBay and CL for about $20 a can. You only need 30 oz for the CRX/Civic. That's 3 cans, which would be about $60-$75.

Unless you live up north in a largely cold weather environment and thus can get away with subpar cooling, I cannot stress enough the importance of R12 in these cars. I also highly recommend you get a new condenser for it.

If you do really want to go R134 know that it will absolutely suck unless you get a parallel flow condenser.

rallypoint_1

Also, if you go with the Sanden unit you will need the Sanden bracket. The Matsu bracket is different from the Sanden.

Matsu on top vs. Sanden

James89DX

Good point, I forgot about the mountings being totally different too.

ZHoob2004

yeah I learned that about the brackets. Of course, I have a b-series motor so I'll need a different bracket anyway and I heard the cr-v brackets work (at least on the sanden compressors) if you cut off the torque mount.

The main question is since I know I need new suction and discharge lines, are there any other cars that have compatible compressors and suction/discharge lines or should I just wait for my junkyard to get another EF?

I'm in AZ so I think I'll be looking to keep it an r12 system because I don't want to get a new condenser just yet.

so just to confirm, my current list of things to get is

sanden compressor (maybe new?)
sanden lines
cr-v bracket
new dryer can
new seals all around


as a note on seals, would these be fine for r12 or are these for r134a?

James89DX

I wouldn't even wait around to find JY suction/discharge lines. Unless you are on an extreme budget - buy new. You can buy new discharge and suction hoses AND a new condenser plus a new drier for under $200 shipped on Rock Auto. Even less if you grab the part numbers and hunt eBay.

Genuinely unless you want to be fooling with your AC over and over, buy as much new as you can. Ideally the only thing you'll re-use is the hard lines. If you have a totally empty (new) system you can then get an EXACT refrigerant and oil charge by weight to get OEM performance from your A/C.

Condensers are impossible to flush. With a used one you will always have residual oil stuck in them. This means when you charge your system you'll never quite have an exact oil charge in your system.

Evaporators are easier to flush and if there is one part of your system that I believe is "okay" to keep a used item it's the evaporator. Of course they're only about $40 new so worth it to go new on that too.

Yes the modern green A/C seals are good for both R12 and R134.

James89DX

I just quickly priced everything on eBay INCLUDING R12 with all new parts for $660 shipped.

That's new compressor, new evaporator, new condenser, new drier, new expansion valve, new discharge and suction lines, plus 36 oz of R12. Could almost certainly eek it under $600 total with some digging as I just did quick "best match" searching. Forgot to add R12 mineral oil to that list but that's only a few dollars. You only need 5 oz of mineral oil.

About $600 total gets you a brand new R12 system for an EF. Not bad at all, especially when you imagine just a compressor replacement alone at a shop is always going to run you a grand pretty much no matter what. And they usually won't even replace the drier and then are somewhat guesstimating on your oil capacity/levels. If you don't have a vacuum pump and gauges you'd just need a shop to vacuum and charge it for you.

ZHoob2004

I'm kind of wary of spending $600 on a/c since that would put it up to almost a quarter of my total cost on the car so far. I think I'm going to wait to get the suction lines/bracket/compressor at the junkyard and see if I can do any refurbishing on the compressor myself. I'll have it professionally vacuumed and filled but with that my total a/c cost should be right around $200-$250 which is what I'm aiming for.

I'm willing to pay the $600 to do it right someday, but it's just not where I am with this car right now.

James89DX

Fair enough, but you can't readily buy Sanden rebuild parts. I looked extensively last year. Since rebuilt TR70's are so notorious for repeated failures many suppliers have stopped stocking parts for them.

Of course they must still be available somewhere since Four Seasons and the like obviously rebuild them. But I wasn't able to find them.

Check on this site too. Lots of ricers still ditch their AC systems and you likely can find a decent deal on the parts you need here.

I do absolutely recommend you replace the expansion valve. It would be foolish to not do that while the evap is out. And obviously you want to install a new drier. Both of those can be had for about $10 each.

ZHoob2004

I figured that everyone who was ditching their a/c did it a long time ago (since it's a 25 year old car).

Of course, that's why I'm in this situation to begin with (because the previous owner ditched it when he did the swap).

jonGSR

Is the expansion valve different between r12 and r134a?

rallypoint_1

The expansion valve is the same for either.

Tyson

ive used freeze-12 in original a/c unit. works fine.

its great having a crx with a/c.

stripped my previous crx of a/c, was horrible as a daily driver. horrible.

dont even try to rationalize it....

zrickety

iTrader: (1)

This has been covered many times, but you need a conversion bracket (hasport or innovative) that only works with a Sanden. OR you can get a B-series compressor and bracket, this is the route I went. Got a used Denso compressor from a GSR with bracket and hoses, hydraulics shop can make the hoses fit your crx hard lines. It's made for r134a, so that's a plus. I used envirosafe es12, it was very cold. Pulley and fan clearance is also an issue depending on your engine mounts and crossmember. I've heard varying things about the CRV bracket, but whatever you do will be a tight fit.

sumdewd

Cut corners now and you will regret it later.. Trust me. A/C systems generally murder themselves as a whole if they die out. Or they'll leak oil and then you have an unknown amount etc.

I've had r134a A/C in my 90 HB Si for 6 years and a parallel flow condenser with this same system for 4(?) years and it sucked *** until I upgraded to the newer condenser. Even at a stoplight in the sun it'll still get decently cold. Go r134a if you do the parallel flow. R12 for stock condenser. I have played with R12 and parallel flow but for some reason it didn't work correctly for me.

I recommend getting some Nylog and using them on all of the o-rings and fittings. It's a gooey snot-like substance and it'll prevent the fittings from seizing and it'll work in place of refrigerant oil on the o-rings to prevent them from leaking or tearing. I have not had a SINGLE leak on this system.

I also recommend getting the darkest metallic or ceramic tint you can if your goal is to turn the car into an icebox. I have had my entire windshield tinted with 50%, while the rest of the windows are 15% and 25% and haven't had an issue for the last 2 years.

Make sure you also seal the condenser to the radiator on all four corners with weatherstripping. This will greatly help idle performance.

Whether or not you think you have a problem, please use vice-grips on your heater valve hose when you charge your A/C. Be sure to read your idle temps before and after clamping it off when you're done. I'm ordering a new valve from majestic honda for 33$ as I write this because clamping mine off gives me 3-6f colder air and it gets annoying having to unclamp it on rainy days for defrost. A bad heater valve will still heat up the heater core even when it's set to cold.

Sorry for the essay, but I hope this system works well for you. Not too many people have decent systems in these old cars.

zrickety

iTrader: (1)

I agree, the more the new parts the better. A used condenser is more of a gamble than the compressor. A new drier is a must. There is an o-ring kit that will have everything you need.