Supa Troopa

Ok I have been searching the forums for about a month now and I have not had any luck on finding a solution to my problem so I am going to post it up. I have an 89 EF with a ls swap in it. It is a full race car, so there is no heater and most I dont have coolant running through the throttle body. The problem I am having is that it appears the coolant is not flowing, the hoses collapse. I have replace the water pump from honda two days ago, purchased a new thermostat from honda a week ago, all hoses are brand new. I have a radiator in the car that came from the junkyard. I put a water hose in it and it appears to flow with the water hose on full blast, well it more than appears, it definitely flows because theres a good amount of water come through the other neck. The head gasket was replaced with a 3-layer about 4 month before my friend wrecked his integra, (side impact engine bay was un-touched). The motor sat for a year before I ran it again, but ran a water hose through the block to flush anything out, followed by air to remove the water I flowed through the block. I have removed the thermostat and tested the temperature in which it opens, and it opens fully at around 86C i believe, but it begins to open at 78C.

What happens with my car as of right now is that the upper hoses throughout the block get very hot, and the coolant on the lower end is very cold. I checked with a thermometer and the coolant temp on the top of the radiator reaches up to 84C, which the thermostat is supposed to open around 78.5C.

When I run the car without a thermostat, the car stays cold forever. If I let it warm up for about 25 minutes, it goes back to c in a matter of 5 minutes. Without the thermostat in the car, both hose to get warm so I know coolant is flowing.

So here is what I know:

1. Thermostat does open and is brand new form honda
2. Water pump does pump and is brand new form honda
3. Head gasket was replaced and the car ran fine with it replaced when the motor was in the integra.
4. Radiator is from a junk yard and does flow with a water hose on it.
5. All hoses are new and have no kinks anywhere
6. I spend up to about 45 minutes burping the motor and I am pretty positive I get all the air out, but I doubt there could be a bubble so large next to the thermostat preventing very hot coolant from even touching the thermostat.
7. Yes, I have the thermostat installed the right way.


My questions:

1. Can the radiator be restricting the flow even though the car temps are cold without the thermostat?
2. If the head gasket is somehow blown again, wouldn't the car still overheat even without the thermostat in it?
3. I had 2 autozone thermostats and one honda, all three work according to my test, is it possible they don't work in the car for some unknown reason?

If anyone can enlighten me I am dieing to know, this problem seems so childish and I can't get past it at all.

sanimalp

Are you using a stock thermostat housing? Is there enough clearance on the housing for the thermostat to open? I think your tests pretty conclusively show that something is wrong with your thermostat, because when you take it out, the car cycles water correctly.

Second thought is that you "burp" the system, but are you using the bleeder valve to make SURE the air is out of the system? i.e. cracking the bleeder valve and filling the system until fluid comes out the bleeder? or are you just filling it and not messing with the bleeder valve? That can easily cause the problem you are having.

Supa Troopa

I am pretty sure it is the stock housing, it is what came with the motor, unless someone way down the line changed it for some reason.

Last night after putting the new water pump in, I used the air bleed valve and filled it until fluid came out then tightened it and the car still overheated.

welfarepc

water pump?

sorry didnt see you had replaced it already... im in for a solution.

CRX Toad

Make sure that your radiator hoses are not collapsing that is has the metal "spring" looking piece in it.

I would also look towards the thermostat.

Also being a junk yard part I hope that something didn't come out and is now blocking something restricting flow.

wiZCo

Stupid question, but are you installing the thermostats with the bleed hole facing upwards?

LSVTEC96HB

I had a similar problem with my LSVTEC wagon. One of the guys at Hondaworks correctly deduced that it was a stubborn air bubble, and that he had the same problem before. Apparently the bleeder valve won't always purge out all the air. The solution is to lift the front of the car really high so that any air bubble would naturally float up to the radiator cap. I fought with this overheating problem for about a month, replacing radiator hoses, thermostats, and checking and rechecking the bleeder valve. There was still air trapped, and the technique he described fixed the problem. Good luck.

grog

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSVTEC96HB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had a similar problem with my LSVTEC wagon. One of the guys at Hondaworks correctly deduced that it was a stubborn air bubble</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks! i'll have to try this as I'm in the same boat.

bigrob119

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSVTEC96HB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had a similar problem with my LSVTEC wagon. One of the guys at Hondaworks correctly deduced that it was a stubborn air bubble, and that he had the same problem before. Apparently the bleeder valve won't always purge out all the air. The solution is to lift the front of the car really high so that any air bubble would naturally float up to the radiator cap. I fought with this overheating problem for about a month, replacing radiator hoses, thermostats, and checking and rechecking the bleeder valve. There was still air trapped, and the technique he described fixed the problem. Good luck.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You rock brother, I've been having this same issue myself.

Supa Troopa

I tried jacking the car up to its fullest extent and poor coolant in and it still over heats.

The thermostat is installed with the bleeder valve facing upwards.

I do not have the springs installed and I am looking into them right now, but still the hoses shouldn't collapse even under stock conditions.

So far the car is still over heating, I have tried everything everyone said to do.

crxfreak1117

ok take the cap off and give it gas and see if air bubble constantly flow out... let me know

sgallagher

When you take the t-stat out and run the engine do the hoses still collapse?

sanimalp

wait a minute.. you said the heater core has been removed because its a race car? Is the routing of the hose that should have been going to the heater core correct? There should be a loop from where the heater core used to go in, and then to the outlet where the heater core flow would re-enter the block. If that is not the case, that might be your issue. Thats the only other thing that has been done to the car's coolant system, so my guess is that it was done wrong somehow.

Supa Troopa

With the t-stat out, everything is great, hoses don't collapse or anything.

At first I did re-route the heater core line into a loop, but I thought it was creating an air pocket so i blocked off both holes.

I'll try the cap thing and let yall know whats up.

sanimalp

you should be routing the coolant in a loop. if you use the bleeder screw, you wont get any air pockets.. that has to be the problem, not your thermostat.

Supa Troopa

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sanimalp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you should be routing the coolant in a loop.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't see why that would matter, the coolant loops from where the heater coolant line starts back to the motor before the thermostat anyways, its like a two inch length on the housing. Blocking off the loop just prevent unnecessary flow of coolant in a random loop. With the heater loop plugged up, I am forcing the coolant to stay on the thermostat.

still no luck but my strainer idea got me through an auto cross event this weekend without overheating and I was still able to maintain temps by turning the fan on and off.

sanimalp

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Supa Troopa &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't see why that would matter, the coolant loops from where the heater coolant line starts back to the motor before the thermostat anyways, its like a two inch length on the housing. Blocking off the loop just prevent unnecessary flow of coolant in a random loop. With the heater loop plugged up, I am forcing the coolant to stay on the thermostat.</TD></TR></TABLE>

All I'm trying to say is that you have already tried 3(!) thermostats, all to no avail. Its safe to say that unless your thermostat housing is the wrong size or something, that its not the thermostat.

What I am doing is thinking "What is different about his system, compared with mine?" the ONLY thing different is that my coolant line is in a loop, where yours is blocked. you have said that your hoses get sucked flat, like its not flowing well enough, so what could be restricting flow? since the odds of 3 thermostats all failing, including one that was tested and verified to work is roughly 0, it is unlikely that the thermostat is the cause.

I don't care if you listen to me or not, I'm just saying that if it were me, I would remove the block and loop it instead to prove myself wrong. Additionally, ive never known anyone to block off the heater core. Everyone i have ever seen remove the core does it in a loop. Unfortunatly, I dont know the direction of flow of the coolant, but if it flows through the heater core first, then that explains your flow issue entirely.

grog

okay i just did a search for you, and looping the lines is what you need

quote-"and if u plug them the water cant circulate properly"

Supa Troopa

I had them looped before and that was one thing I eliminated to see if it was the problem. We thought it was creating an air pocket. I can put the loop back in, but doing that only brings more coolant into the system, and all that loop is doing is directing coolant on a tangent for 8". The hole that leads to the heater core and the return line is only about 1 or 2 inches apart. I have blocked lines like this before on different engines and it worked fine. I will try it and see what happens and post up the results to determine in fact if it it needed to loop the hose or not.

I am open to all advice but I like to bring up points to get others thinking. So please don't take anything personal, I am just posting from my experience.

sanimalp

here is a post from the drag race forum you might find interesting.. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2237772