sanimalp

this is a strange issue that just came up with my car. Lately, after not making any changes mechanically or otherwise to my car, it started dying while driving. in one case, i was going down a hill at 55mph on a highway, and all of a sudden rpm's went to 0 and then back to 3000 and then zero again, and back and forth a couple more times, then kept on driving just normally. it did not chug or hesitate. it's as if i turned off the ignition and turned it back on.

Later in the same trip, i was driving at 40ish and the car basically shut off after the same weird rpm "undulation" and would not be restarted for about 15 mins. as i was coasting with the car off, i tried letting out the clutch to get it to restart, and it would not at all. i let it sit for a few minutes while i checked the alternator belt. then got back in and tried to start it again, and starts right up like nothing happened. the headlights and dash lights seemed to dim a bit, but not like dead battery, and the car would crank just fine. so the battery was not dead.

all of these issues have occurred in the last 2 or so weeks in Colorado where it hasn't gotten above 40 degrees F. i changed the alternator because i didn't trust the one i had in anyway, and my friend, also into EF's mentioned the rpm "anomaly" when his alternator was going out. so i changed it and i was getting the exact same symptoms again.

current theories are main relay, ignition switch, and igniter and/or coil in distributor. the main relay hasn't been changed or re soldered in my car in the 2 years i have owned it, so i am kinda leaning toward that, and because i can solder it for free. i of course have the obligatory "box o' distributors" laying around, so coil and igniter aren't an issue for me to test either. the ignition switch i mention because my main relay intermittently wasn't clicking when i would put the ignition in the position to prime the fuel pump.

With all this, does anyone have any suggestion other than the ones i mentioned?

Cliff's: crazy tach, dies at 50mph, cranks just fine, alternator replaced. think its main relay, ignitor/coil, or ignition. no new modifications at all.

Seatown

Distributor, same thing happen to me while driving on the freeway. I have a automatic but the car died and check engine light came on. The distributor was new, so I was shocked that it needed to be replaced.

edit: forgot to add once I got off the freeway via state patrol pushing my car, it started right up after a 15 min brake. I replaced the main relay also with the dizzi, and everything's been fine.


Modified by Seatown at 3:40 PM 1/8/2007


Modified by Seatown at 3:40 PM 1/8/2007

sanimalp

The weird thing is, I am not getting any CEL's at all. The CEL will blink on when it was doing the rpm "undulation" but there was no code being thrown.

wood 1

This recently happened to me and after asking almost the same question as you, I didn't get much help. After some trial and error, I replaced the coil and it seemed to solve the problem. Two weeks later, it is starting to happen again. This problem started slowly and got progressively worse. My car has power windows and yesterday the drivers side stopped working. After removing the door panel, there were bare hot wires touching the metal of the door. The windows were wired to constant power at the fuse panel and I'm wondering if this could have caused a problem with my coil, as there is no fuse to blow when these wires were grounding out. Try the coil and see if that fixes your problem. Good luck!

Pee Wee

power wire from alternator to fuse box? mine had a lot of corrosion on which cause mine to die frequently. i only figured it out after i replaced the alternator and that didnt fix it.

driftdas2000

Definatley do a main relay its the most common problem and most intermittant at times. People say replace the distributor or alternator but total power loss points directly to the main relay. If it was a charging issue the car would lose accessory power from radio to clock to lights till the engine finally dies.

sanimalp

thank you for all the input. the alternator wire is good information as well, something i hadnt thought about. ill check the coil first chance i get as well. the hard part about this stuff is that since it is so intermittent, that unless the coil or ignitor test bad when i check them, i wont know for sure if i have fixed the problem.

RCautoworks

Your car will still run with a bad alternator, or a bad wire. You have a spark or fuel problem it sounds. Swap in a new relay, mine has actually been acting up a lot as of late. Random times as well, go to drive and the car will slowly shut off, start it back up and it will try to catch but then shut down.

schueytenten

I had similar problems and it turned out to be the Idle Air Control Valve. She has been running like a champ ever since I changed it out. A spendy part but worth every penny if it is your problem.


Stock 88 CRX Si. 245K miles

HondaPartsHero

http://techauto.tripod.com/mainrelay.htm

check on the left hand side of the page on ignition problems

sanimalp

wow, that page is great info on the main relay issue. thanks.

sanimalp

just a quick update here, i replaced the igniter and coil yesterday and started my car and it ran just fine, as normal. today i went to drive it to my GF's house, and i decided to let it sit and run for a little while, to see if it was going to die. well just sitting in front of my house, letting it idle, it died again all by itself. im happy that i didnt have to get it towed, but now i really think it has to be the main relay. there isnt any other explanation for it at all.

as a side note, my ignition has been acting strange, i believe ive talked about it already, but i put it in the auxiliary position to allow the fuel pump to prime, and it sometimes will switch on, and sometimes wont. this is just a recent event. how often do ignition switches go out?

i ask because after i replace the main relay, the ignition is the next best thing i can come up with as a possible cause. any more ideas besides main relay and ignition?

AndrePerras

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sanimalp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just a quick update here, i replaced the igniter and coil yesterday and started my car and it ran just fine, as normal. today i went to drive it to my GF's house, and i decided to let it sit and run for a little while, to see if it was going to die. well just sitting in front of my house, letting it idle, it died again all by itself. im happy that i didnt have to get it towed, but now i really think it has to be the main relay. there isnt any other explanation for it at all.

as a side note, my ignition has been acting strange, i believe ive talked about it already, but i put it in the auxiliary position to allow the fuel pump to prime, and it sometimes will switch on, and sometimes wont. this is just a recent event. how often do ignition switches go out?

i ask because after i replace the main relay, the ignition is the next best thing i can come up with as a possible cause. any more ideas besides main relay and ignition?</TD></TR></TABLE>

What you just said is a fuel pump relay 100% - you hear the pump prime sometimes and others you dont... That's definiteley a main relay.

ekratman

Question,

If the rest of the accessories run but the fuel pump doesn't (fuel pump is fine) that could still be the Main Relay?

sanimalp

that is one of the initial signs that your main relay has died. when you turn on the ignition, accesories come on, but the fuel pump doesnt make the click or spin up. the other thing i have heard about main relay problems is that it will click a lot. like a bunch of times but doesnt engage to spin up the fuel pump. if your fuel pump isnt priming, i think you should suspect your main relay first, and then go with the fuel pump.

ekratman

Thanks! Yeah I had my car die in a parking lot and found no pressure at the filter. I replaced the filter, hoping it would be an easy fix... Nope. Funny thing was that I was getting voltage to the pump. It was showing 12 volts on my meter. I replaced the pump... nope. I then connected my new (and unneccisary pump) to my battery back up jump starter (I took it to the parking lot since I had been cranking the car alot over the course of the project). It ran fine with that aux battery, so I hard wired it to my accessories which has worked now until it is cold out. The temp cut out of power makes it hard to start in the cold. I think that I should just try a new relay now that i am pretty sure that's what it is.

ekratman

Yep, it was the main relay! Man, that was hard to get to...

havok hybrid

I have had this issue.. and my 88 hatch it still happens once in a while.. (cause of the weather). I just bang on the dash right above my driver side heater vent.. and then it starts right up... hahaha

Oh yea.. and there not that much fun to replace.. why did honda have to hide them under the dash like they did...

sanimalp

i resoldered my main relay tonight. that did NOT fix the problem. however, i think my ignition switch is the culprit. i can put it in the auxiliary position, and nothing happens sometimes, other times it acts just normal. i can start the car and it will stay running, but i can shut it off and try to restart it and it is just dead. it has to be the ignition switch. i just hope it isnt too expensive.

i guess this ignition switch thing kinda makes sense, because i think my car has had to have been re-keyed atleast once for sure.. because my normal ignition and door key does not work on the hatch. the rubber boot that usually is around the ignition switch is missing on my car, and the upper and lower steering column covers are broken and dont fit together like they should.

i need to run a car fax on my car, because it seems like it may have gotten stolen in the past. i dont have an s on my title though, and i register it just fine.. soo..

here are some pics of before and after of the main relay. i didnt de-solder, i just added some solder over the old joints.. pretty ghetto, but i guess the main relay wasnt the problem in the first place.

before, not pretty..

after, yeah gross.. but it works..


and.. just so my relay soldering doesnt look as bad.. a picture of a smashed Ferrari Enzo..


sorry. i had to do it.

sanimalp

alright, here is the million dollar question, assuming my ignition switch is the problem, what parts will i need to get it working again. ive been to hondaautomotiveparts.com and checked out the ignition switch stuff, and it is pretty expensive. i would like to get only what people think i need rather than buying the whole assembly for $200 or whatever.
here is a picture of the parts diagram.. its real crappy,sorry


the issue seems mechanical with the switch itself. once the switch is in the right position, the electrical seems to work just fine. but you move the switch a tiny bit and the car shuts off or electrical cuts out. thanks for the help

[JL_Audio]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sanimalp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow, that page is great info on the main relay issue. thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

RCautoworks

Autozone sells the switch, its about $30 bucks I believe, if the terminals are dirty or worn that could be causing issues.

viciousef9

it sound like the distibutor. i would just replace that the spark plugs and wires you should be fine if not then at least you start the elimination process.

sanimalp

spark plugs are about 1k miles old. the wires are a bit older, but the car runs fine when the ignition is working.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90blackcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Autozone sells the switch, its about $30 bucks I believe, if the terminals are dirty or worn that could be causing issues. </TD></TR></TABLE>

what all is included with that switch? is it just an electrical part, or does it have any mechanical connection to the system? i really have no idea how the key ignition system works at all.

sanimalp

well, after 2 weeks of trying to get enough time to work on my car, i finally replaced the ignition switch and it seems to have fixed it.

here is a picture of the ignition switch. old one on the left.

it looks like the switch has about the same problem the main relay has, as far as solder movement is concerned. maybe it is just my car though, because it's a wiring abomination. either way, ill keep this updated if it decides to die again, because then i will really have no idea what is causing it.