essay0ns

It looks like lots of people are having similar problems with the IAC valve.

I thought I had the same problem but now I don't think so...

Losing power, losing gas milage, really rough idle and vibration. Then it sputtered and stopped. It sounds like it wants to start but it just dies when you let off on the ignition. I thought it was the IAC, swapped it out but it didn't make a difference.

It's a 1990 Civic Hatch DX with a 1.5 l (SOHC, Duel point injected ) engine and 333K.

I have owned this vehicle for three years and work on it regularly. All the usual suspects seem innocent.

I hear the fuel pump working, It tries to start so I am fairly sure that it's getting fuel (I can smell it) and spark.

In the last 6 months I have replaced:
Alternator, Starter, Ignition coil, Grounding cables, Battery Cables, Rotor, Spark plugs, Spark plug wires, Dash pot (the one that slows the drop of the accelerator when you let off the gas).

Battery is a year old.

If the contacts in IAC valve are bad would this result? I see in the Haynes manual that the resistance should be between 7.0-13.0 Ohms (I need to double check that) when I tested it, the original seemed low while the replacement seemed within range.

Until then, any ideas? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks


Essay0ns

10psiLsEf2

With all of those miles. First thing id do is compression test.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

True, could be a bad head gasket or something along those lines. 350k is a good bit of miles. Compression test should be $20 from the parts store or Harbor Freight.

essay0ns

Turns out there may be 2 issues:

#1 - Just got a report from the shop - #1 is down to 70 psi while 3 & 4 are 140-150. Now to find out if it's rings or valves. That explains the vibration, fuel and power issues. I failed to mention the oil consumption which leads me to believe it's rings. Any ideas what a shop would charge for that? I wonder if now would be a good time to consider a MiniMe conversion.

#2 - Second issue is the start and run. It's looking like the ignition switch but still trying to isolate it. On that note, has anyone tried customization of the switch? I see lots of cool starter buttons out there.

Essay0ns

DamnThatsRexy

try swapping the pcv valve. mine was doing similar(not exact) stuff to that, and i changed it and it fixed it. Once you find the valve, take it off, shake it. if it doesnt rattle its dead. go get a new one, like 3 bucks at Oreillys

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

1. Shop will charge a fortune. If you are mechanically incline I would reccommend doing it yourself since it will be a pretty penny in parts alone. It would be a decent time for a mini-me since the head has to come off to change piston rings.

2. Customizing the switch is easy. The hardest part for me was the locking mechanism on the steering wheel. Your key switch is basically just 2 switches. The first switch turns on accessory power, the second switch turns on the starter. I wired the first part of the key switch to a normal flip switch. I then wired the second part to a push button. I removed the steering lock and deleted the key area all together. That was a different project though. Not sure how hard it is on a honda. If you just want the push button start, you can wire it under the dash to the portion of the key that controls just the starter. Then you turn the key and push a button. Search MightyCarMods on youtube, they did a push button key install and the production value on their videos is top notch. Plus Australian accents are the best.

If you really want to do a mini-me, now is a good time. You can replace the piston rings while leaving the block in the car. It's quite easy. It may be messy due to oil dripping from the bottom of the motor, but nothing you can't plan ahead for. I saw a video called "how to turbo your honda over the weekend" that explained how to change pistons out with the block still in the car. That is the way I would change your piston rings. Definitely check the valves when you remove the head. The exhaust side usually go first. You can always do the mini-me and check compression if you think it is the valves. But if it isn't the valves, you may need a new headgasket again.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

I don't think the PCV would cause low compression on a cylinder. That is usually Valves, rings or head gasket.

essay0ns

Baby is still in the shop. There is a little bit of new information. It turns out that there is no power getting to the ignition - probably from the switch. Power is good from the starter.

I just did some research on-line for ring replacement at the shop - not cheap, looking at $800-$1200. I considered doing a swap. Shop said about $250-300. A used remanufactured stock 1.5L engine was about $900 and the the 1.6L was about $1200. Piston ring set is running $73. Intake valves look like they are in the $10 range, exhaust valves... looks like there will be quite a lot of parts to get into this.

Just being lazy, do you need to replace the fuel pump when you upgrade to a MiniMe?

I still have to look on CraigsList to see if I can find parts. The MiniMe may be economically feasible but I'm not going to hold my breath.

It looks like I'm going to get a lot more intimate with the internal features of the Honda engine.

jpciii

Malfunctioning IACV will cause a high or fluctuating idle. It won't cause it to sputter to a stop and die.

A brand new ignition switch is like $30 from rockauto.com, It takes maybe half an hour to replace it. The most exotic tool you'll need is a 17mm socket to remove the steering wheel. I'm surprised the ignition switch has lasted this long. Definitely replace it first, then see how the car behaves.

As for paying a shop to do the engine work... I would not even consider it. You will very quickly rack up bills that are MUCH higher than the car is worth.

10psiLsEf2

IMO get a japanese replacement.

Gonna be hundreds cheaper that route

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

Any used swap is pretty cheap in the Honda world, at least for the stock SOHC. I would either do the piston rings myself, or swap the motor for a Z6, Y8 or D15B. Motor swaps are probably easier than the piston rings. Just my opinion though.

essay0ns

I found a 1992 Y8 - I am assuming it's a ODB1 - reading the forum here makes it sound like its not too difficult a swap. They are asking $500 for it with wiring harness and injection system. Doesn't say anything about the ECU but the forum seems to have found a way to wire it into the existing ODB-0. Is it worth the effort?

Question is: How do you know if the used engine is good before you swap it?

I didn't see anything that addressed linkage from the shifter or the drive shafts... I'll keep looking.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

It is a good and cheap swap. That price sounds fine to me, depending on what it is including.

You need an OBD1 ECU for that motor, I suggest finding the stock one. Do not stay OBD0 with that motor. Much easier to swap over to OBD1. I did a write up, very simple. Worth the effort to go to OBD1.

How to know if the engine is good. Pull the plugs, look for rust on them or anything along that. You can fill it with oil and look for obvious cracks in the block or bad gaskets. Check the compression. That can be done by direct wiring the starter to a battery while the motor is out of the car. You can inspect the valves visually by pulling the valve cover. I mean, you can't see the actual valves but maybe you can see some damage. Check the miles on the motor. You can look down the spark plug hole and check out the tops of the pistons and see how they look.

Axles are easy. Not sure if your knuckles/spindles will work, I forget the specifics. However the linkage should be your stock shift linkage. Very easy.

It's my lunch! I'll be back later.

essay0ns

Update -
They got the car to run but to do it they had to press the accelerator half-down and hold it.

We thought the switch was bad and/or the ignitor. If that was the case then it wouldn't have started right? I thought someone had identified this problem in the forums but I haven't been able to find it again. Anybody have a lead on this?

Of course it's not going to run properly because of the low compression in the #1 cylinder. We are doing the test for valve vs. rings on Monday. As it was explained to me - you put some oil in the cylinder, hook up your pressure tester and crank it. If pressure stays low through 4 cycles it's the rings. If it doesn't then it's the valve. I'm hoping for the valve.

Fremananana - I read your OBD0 - ODB1 conversion and your engine swap. Impressive... I feel a little bit better about the swap. After reading it I was still a little unsure about having to swap the axles.

BLUE CABOOSE

Im curious to know what's causing the stalling issue?

essay0ns

Blue - I am suspecting the ignition but as I mentioned in an earlier post they were able to get the thing running by holding down the accelerator.

.... when he first tested it there was no power to the ignitor from the ignition. Not sure what the prognosis is now but I am really suspicious that it's the ignition. Maybe a worn wire or something pulled loose. Could it be up stream from the ignition?

The shop said that it's not going to run right anyway with the low pressure in the #1 cylinder and that would throw everything else off. Not sure about that, it ran for three days like that before it just quit. It was rough but never stalled.

I was looking through the manual for a throttle position sensor and couldn't find one. I thought it might be some sort of sensor or electrical component that controlled the spark to the ignitor.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

It tells the computer how far open your throttle body is. It is on the firewall most likely. It's a little plug with 3 wires coming out of it and a vacuum line. Passenger side. If it is leaking, you'll have a rough time with your car.

essay0ns

Freemananana - I'll look for it. Maybe that's a contributor.

essay0ns

I'm stuck and open for suggestions.

Here's the update.

Looks like I'm committed to do a swap. I'm seeing a direct D15 to D15 re-manufactured engine for about $1000. I have been watching craigslist and other internet sites for an a used engine but just can't take the chance that the replacement could have hidden problems. The D16y8 I found is about $500, Rebuild kits - $250, ECU -$100, plus whatever else it needs... It's quickly getting to that same price not to mention the time investment which appears would put me in the same time bracket.

like I said, I am open to any suggestions.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

So you are swapping the motor. Hm. I have a D15B1 that would definitely run another 150k that I would almost give away. But Missouri sucks, so you can't have it. Seriously though, I live in Florida and shipping would cost a fortune.

You can't find a motor in the for sale section? Try Hmotorsonline.com They should have a D-series drop in swap for cheap. And if your trans is still good it's even cheaper. They should be able to work with you if you want to call them.

essay0ns

Freemananana - Thanks for the offer... shipping would be a killer. It's odd about the local engine market. Maybe it's just the time of year or something. I'm always on the watch so it's just a matter of time. Unfortunately, I don't think I have much time to waste.

Thanks for the link, I'll check them out.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

They are in Cali, so you may be able to pick it up without shipping if you own a truck and have a weekend to spare.

dueyx99

make sure both injectors are firing, also make sure the upper throttle plates moves in conjuction with the lower, check the diaphragm and the solenoid that feeds it

essay0ns

Update...

Replaced the starter switch today. Baby Started up just like usual, no problems at all. The engine didn't vibrate or surge or misbehave in any way.

Now I'm confused. If I have a bad valve or a problem with my rings wouldn't that problem persist no matter what I do to the other systems? Could this be strictly an electrical problem?

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

I am pretty sure electrical gremlins like that can have adverse effects on other systems. If it fixed your problem, don't look into it too much.