JeffBro

dude If I were you I would just go check the local classifieds and find a already built motor someone is selling. I see ppl selling b20v b18's and all kinds of stuff with internals, cams, intakes, porting, all the good stuff already for a fraction of the cost. Just make sure you hear it run before you buy it or you get machine shop paper work. Or even just buy a stock motor thats been swapped b4 for half the cost.

Surfjunkie44

I made a promise that all service on the car would be completed prior to the swap. Excluding brakes, almost all mechanical parts have been replaced or are in proper functioning order and service life. The front calipers need a healthy sand blasting due to heavy oxidation and I wouldn't mind a new set of hats and pads on all four. I will most likely have the motor by the end of March at latest. I won't lie, I am beginning to get a little anxious and excited.

Surfjunkie44

Jeffbro, I actually have been keeping an eye on local classifieds but here in Florida, well, the picking isn't as good as California. After all the research I have conducted, the ITR engine is perfect for what I am seeking to accomplish with this car. Unfortunately, ITR engines don't lay around in someone's garage just collecting dust and awaiting love - at least not here in Florida.

Fo-Do Fanatic

Okay, I'm going to clear things up for you really quick. Find the GSR motor you want. The USDM and JDM ones didn't have a lot of differences really. Power wise the JDM one puts out more but that's due to less restricions over there than we have here. I'm going to put a list together for you, off the top of my head may forget something, and hopefully clear things up.

-Get RyWires OBD0-OBD1 ECU conversion harness, Vtec subharness and distributor adapter. It's $189 for the whole shabang. Their subharness will also come with an IAB sensor plug which is what activates the secondary butterflies on the intake mani at 5700rpm.
-90-91 Integra axles and intermediate shaft. Remove the dust rings on your hubs as well for the axles to fit.
-4wire O2 sensor.
-P28 ECU, chipped and basemapped for the motor you have and whatever add-ons you want.
-Hasport/Avid/Innovative 88-91 Bseries swap shift linkage, or you can custome make one with buying any B-series shift linkage and shortening it to the length you need.
-Hasport/Avid/Innovative 88-91 B series swap mounts. You'll want to choose the hardness of the bushings according to how the car will be drivin, I.E daily, weekend or track warrior.
-EG/DC intake tube, not necessary but it'll look better without all the bend the EF intakes have.
-You'll need two different radiator hoses for the upper and lower. I can't remember exactly which they are. I'll look into it tell you later.
-Intake/Exhaust manifold gaskets, might as well replace them now, right?
-Honda antifreeze. Yes, go to the dealer to get the antifreeze. It's silicate free unlike all other antifreeze you buy at the auto store. Honda motor's HATE silicate. Your motor will thank you later.
-Oil of your choice.
-Trans fluid of your choice. I run Torco MTF. I love it. Though it is spendy.
-Hydro to cable clutch conversion if you choose to use a hydro trans, if you stay cable you wont need to worry about anything.
-90/91 Integra Rear trans mount bracket.

I think that's all. I may be forgetting something.

If you want an ITR motor, didn't completely read the thread I'll edit a few things.

Surfjunkie44

We actually kinda passed that part of the conversation, but I much appreciate the response. This allows me a nicely put together grocery list. ; ) But yes, I will be swapping for an ITR.

- I will being using the P73 temporarily until finding a P28 - I actually am interested in learning the chipping side of the swap.
- According to the posting provided by Alfie, a 1992 GSR upper radiator hose and 1990 Integra lower radiator hose, though that isn't very definitive.
- I firmly agree with you in regard to using EG straight piping for the intake tube vs. the EF waterslide.
- I couldn't agree more regarding the use of Honda radiator fluid.
- I was considering GM synchromesh but I'll look into Torco - thanks for the heads up.

I have decided to keep this as my build thread - might as well, right? - so stay tuned. We'll be back after our next commercial break.

civiccrx

Just get the boomslang obd0 ->obd2a jdm harness and use the p73 ecu. It works great man and no messing around with a p28. You can pull ecu trouble codes easier than with the rywire setup.

Silverfoot88

if this has been covered already, then i apologize, but your question about the gsr and type r difference being covered by $1001, if you're going to be building your motor, it's a good idea to take a look at the specs and numbers and weigh exactly what you're spending against what you're gaining. if you want to spend the extra money to put your car exactly to type r specs, then if you budget it right and double check the specs and tolerances on used parts, you can do it.

the other side to that coin is "do you want to build a 'stock' motor?". if you're putting the specs to Type R from GSR, all you're really gaining is about 25-30 hp and a few ft lbs of torque, so if you could spend the same money and apply it in different aspects of the build and make more power, would that be something that you're willing to consider?

a set of cams with a more agressive high grind, 11.5:1 compression pistons and 400 cc injectors on a GSR with a type r ecu are in that price range, especially if you get a shop to grind the cams to your specs. you might even be able to afford a mild port, and a micro polish procedure as well and you'd be putting out some respectable power. and if you figure on spending $150 for a few runs to test and dyno tune, you'll have a strong, affordable motor. most importantly, you'll have a fresh motor that will last a few thousand more miles and the confidence in knowing exactly what you've got under the hood.

Fo-Do Fanatic

A chipped and tuned P28 will give you much more than a stock P73. I've heard a few horror stories with the Syncromesh as I've heard some good things too. It's kinda 50/50 with that stuff.

I HIGHLY suggest you go to OBD1 and not OBD2b

Surfjunkie44

If you read my last long post (bottom of page 1), I covered the Poor Man's Type-R build. While the HP and TQ gains could possibly be attained with the $700 difference in engine prices, other factors would not be (ie - such as a more reliable bottom end). I don't think people realize how much was done to the Type-R engine in respect to the GSR. In my humble opinion, the negligible price difference is more than worth the $700 for all that is gained. But again, I covered my basis for these conclusions in that previous post. Thanks for your reply though.

Surfjunkie44

Could you expand on some of the key differences between using the P28 vs. the P73? I have not looked into this as of this moment. I do recall back when I was swapping motors (nearly ten years ago), the P28 was the way to go for tuning.

Surfjunkie44

I have heard the same on all three accounts, Fo-Do. I have planned to set the engine up OBD1 - I couldn't more thoroughly agree with you in that regard. Just out of curiosity, what about Honda Genuine synthetic MTF?

Deetz

From you are going through and what i have already done, here is what i think your best option is in a crx...

- go with the Type R B18C. The 98+ models do have the 4.7fd with lsd for a tranny. Or, if you want to sell it off, find a 92-93 gdr YS1 cable tranny to mate with it.

For the extra money spent, you will get!!!!

- mild port of the cylinder head, with lighter valves and dual valve springs on both intake and exhaust, and better cams

- larger throttle body

- "stronger" rods, and higher comp pistons good for 11:1 compression. Type R pistons are also the only ones to have the extra moly coating on the sides from factory

- higher flow exhaust manifold

- tranny brace

Those are some great features right off the bat, worth considering

oh, and for running it, go OBDI with something good like an S300, you'll have the best of the best and can tune any future setups and mods

Surfjunkie44

I had forgotten about the transmission brace, but was not aware of the throttle body size. Do you know the millimeter measurement difference?

After a lot of consideration, I have decided on the 4.4 final drive. The gearing ratio (even with the 4.4 final drive in 1996-7 spec) still remains superior to the GSR gearing, not to mention stronger synchros in all gears.

I have not looked into tuning yet, but Hondata was the choice selection ten years ago. I'll be discussing these options more in the near future, but would appreciate all input you have regarding such. Thanks for your reply.

Fo-Do Fanatic

A chipped P28 with a basemap for your motor can yield more power gains as well as being able to have 2step, anti-theft(depending on who chipped it and what they offer to put on the ECu) Anti-lag and a bunch of other ****. Being that the P73 is OBD2b you'd have step up to the OBD in order to run the R ecu. It's just not worth it in my opinion.

Honda MTF is great as well. I ran it for a very long time and had no complaints with it. It's about the same price as the Torco MTF, but bang for the buck, you can't beat Torco.

Hondata S100 or 200 or even the 300 is a great ECU. But most people run that engine management inside of a P28 and have an authorized tuner tune it. It offers a WIDE
range of capabilities. If I were to ever boost my GSR, that's the EMS I would decide on.

If I'm not mistaken I believe the OEM ITR throttle body is a 62mm if my mind serves me correct. You could also find a good BDL or even a Blox or BWR 68mm throttle body and yield even a little more power gains.

P28 - 92-95 Civic Si/Ex ECU that is OBD1 and VTEC ecu. This is the ECU most 90% of people that have chipped/tuned their ECU's look for. Highly sought after.

P73 - 96-2001? ITR ECU that is OBD2b and is VTEC as well. But being that it's OBD2b most people would sell/trade it for a P28.

rd91sib18c5r

I'm using the obd2 type r ecu with the rywire harness and have no problem retrieving codes,
There is a wire that you ground and the check light blinks the codes like the obd0.

But you can tune the obd1 better, but with my car being obd2 now it passes the emmisions
test without any problems.

civiccrx

Yeah, you just jump the 2pin plug under the glovebox with the boomslang one. I say easier, but probably easy either way you go.

Deetz

The ITR TB is 62mm, all other b series are 60mm, and the 1st gen B16A was 58mm. As already mentioned though, it easy to upgrade.

As far as the tranny goes, for my crx, i use the cable YS1 from a gsr. This tranny is cool because it is "exactly" the same gearing and final drive as all usdm Type R tranny's, and the jdm 96-97 spec.

It's also cool, because no messing around with the hydro swap. I was really nerdy, and sourced out a 2nd YS1 for my crx from a 1992 jdm Honda Integra that was B16A powered, but came with the famous YS1 like the north american models did, but with the optional oem LSD (which was contracted through Quaiffe at the time)

Surfjunkie44

Would you mind finding me one of those? ; )

Deetz

I have two of them, but not selling either

I'll tell you how i found them though, perhaps you could go a similar route. The 1st one i bought is a usdm YS1. I went to a higher end wrecking yard that is connected with one of those special parts finder computer setups across the country, and asked them to search all 1992 & 93 model GSR's for transmissions. (this was about 5-6 years ago) I had a few options, but went with the pick of the litter....a 1993 model which had been parted out may years earlier, with the tranny still sitting on the shelf....the kicker, only 9000 kms original! not miles, but kilometers. Cost me $850 shipped for the tranny which was basically brand new.

The other YS1 i picked up is jdm, The cheapest way to go about this is luck and patience. Even in Japan, the 91-92 model DA integra's were obdI and still used the cable YS1 with their B16A models. The were lucky in the they had the option of the oem LSD. It was more rare, maybe 1 in 15 had the option, but they are out there. I waited for one of these engine packages to arrive at a local jdm supplier i deal with. He doesn't separate motors and tranny's, so i bought the whole pkg for $2200, and parted it myself.

I got $1200 for the minty 2nd gen B16, and $150 for the ECU. So there i was, a low mileage
jdm YS1 with LSD option for $850 (this was 5 years ago)

Prices may be cheaper now, as these parts are getting older, but it pays to be smart and shop around....good luck!!!

Surfjunkie44

Thanks for the info, Deetz... Oh, and if you change your mind, you know, about that other transmission you have laying around, well, just let me know. ; )

rd91sib18c5r

I have a ys1 im my car and I put in a type r lsd in it, was easy there
is a write up on instaling one in tech section, I have a y1 lsd jdm tranny
i'm going to use if I ever have a problem with this one. I've broken
a few open diffs with this motor. They're hard to find but there cable
and lsd you might look for a y1 if you don't wanna go hydro.

Surfjunkie44

RD, I'm not dying for one... if one shows up, Bravo!, but if not, I'll simply purchase the hydro to cable conversion kit from Hasport. Those guys are going to make a lot of money off me soon...

CRX_RR

hydro to cable? I thought it was CABLE TO HYDRO

Surfjunkie44

No. THe EFBHCL kit converts a hydraulic clutch set-up to cable. There is actually a write up on it in Honda-Tech - the main complaint is that stock cables are unable to handle heavy duty aftermarket clutches and pressure plates.

Hasport Hydraulic to Cable kit:
http://hasport.com/store/index.php/a...ch/efbhcl.html

Honda-Tech Article:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-crx-ef-civic-1988-1991-3/hasport-hydro-cable-conv-2779991/

CRX_RR

Don't forget you need a different mount for the hydro case. Can't use a cable case mount on a hydro case..