Sassafrass

What would be the ideal motor for a daily driver/autocross Eg hatch?
B16b? I'm just thinking that cause of the high reving.

Mar_DC2

auto-x doesnt require a lot of high revving since the tracks are so small, you'll need a lot of low end grunt since the majority of the time you're slowing down for turns etc, i'd say H22 even though a lot of people would disagree, but i know people with H22's in eg's that auto-x and handle better than most other civics.

Mr Hammond

I'd take a very mild LSVtec. Nothing overpowering. ITR head and an LS block w/ JDM ITR pistons and ARP rod bolts. Balenced and blueprinted.

Fowler.

I say a sohc vtec with a nice tranny. 4.9 fd and a quaife.

I know next to nothing about auto-x, but I do know that if you swap your motor, you're put into a bracket with a bunch of much faster cars.

h22John

im one of those h22 eg autoxers....the tourque really does help u pull it out of a slow corner but so does the better gearing on the b-series. personally i think the only thing im missing to keep up with the b18c5's is an lsd. not knocking c5's but im getting pretty close to em with my setup. As far as the b16b goes i think your only advantage would be endurance racing on a track, not on an autox course.For right now the b18c5 is def the best . at least until some of us h22 guys get some more experience with susp tuning these things. im personally on a budget so it'll come along slowly. and for those who say it weighs so much?.....no it doesnt ...period

KillerWabbit

It depends on who is putting on the event and how strict they are. But, this is my understanding. If you swap your motor, and don't want to be bumped up a class, it would have to be something JDM... some motor that Honda has originally put in a Civic.. So a JDM B16A in an EG would be legal. Again, this is what I was hearing today, may not apply everywhere. Those were the rules at the autocross event I ran in today. I have a US GS-R motor though.. so I was bumped up to SSM.

I wouldn't want a B series 1.6 for autocross though. Don't waste money on a B16B... I think they're crap. You really do want torque. Even with quick gear ratios, you are still going to want power down low. I would say get any 1.8 or even a 1.6 SOHC VTec before a B16A, Vtec would be nice in any case of course, maybe even a B20? Maybe not. I'm not sure how good those hold up, never realyl heard of one that autocrosses.

Simple SOHC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h22John &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im one of those h22 eg autoxers....the tourque really does help u pull it out of a slow corner but so does the better gearing on the b-series. personally i think the only thing im missing to keep up with the b18c5's is an lsd. not knocking c5's but im getting pretty close to em with my setup. As far as the b16b goes i think your only advantage would be endurance racing on a track, not on an autox course.For right now the b18c5 is def the best . at least until some of us h22 guys get some more experience with susp tuning these things. im personally on a budget so it'll come along slowly. and for those who say it weighs so much?.....no it doesnt ...period</TD></TR></TABLE>

What kinda of suspension are you running? And I agree...it's not that it weighs more...it's how you ballance the weight of the car out. I deffinately like how the H-series has a lot of pulling power in the low RPMs. I notice a big difference driving my gf's Prelude SI from my Civic EX. As soon as she gets her H22...I'm gettin her H23 and building it up for a nice road racing motor for the mtn's...probobly with an H22 head and Type-S internals...haven't decided yet.

Personally if I wanted to auto-x right now...a nicely built D-Series will get you goin for cheap and it will be a lighter and balanced straight off. But thats just me.

h22John

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H23 EG Hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What kinda of suspension are you running? And I agree...it's not that it weighs more...it's how you ballance the weight of the car out. I deffinately like how the H-series has a lot of pulling power in the low RPMs. I notice a big difference driving my gf's Prelude SI from my Civic EX. As soon as she gets her H22...I'm gettin her H23 and building it up for a nice road racing motor for the mtn's...probobly with an H22 head and Type-S internals...haven't decided yet.

Personally if I wanted to auto-x right now...a nicely built D-Series will get you goin for cheap and it will be a lighter and balanced straight off. But thats just me.</TD></TR></TABLE> im running a jdm h22 in a 93 si......susp is skunk adj coilovers w/integra spring rate, its a little mushy up front so a stiffer spring is in my future, koni yellow adj shocks at 100%stiff up front bout 75% rear....neuspeed front upper strut bar, skunk upper rear strut bar, susp techniques 19mm lower rear sway, and spoon lower brace. 15in rota slips with falken azenis 205/50/15, stock civic si brakes, future plans, spoon brakes, stiffer front springs, lsd. also for those of u who dont know and are thinkin of a susp setup the progress group has a susp kit specifically for h22 hatches. i havnt heard of how it works or anything but if its Progress it usually works pretty damn good..................john .......peace

mrbsponge

A lot of people will probably laugh when I say this. Im extremely happy with my LS b18b. Ive been keeping up with B16 hatches in the events i've ran. A b18b with a GSR tranny would even better! Im running the LS tranny until I come across a deal on a gsr. The torque of the LS really does help keep you competitive.

paRRRker

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fowler &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I say a sohc vtec with a nice tranny. 4.9 fd and a quaife.

I know next to nothing about auto-x, but I do know that if you swap your motor, you're put into a bracket with a bunch of much faster cars.</TD></TR></TABLE>

also agreed that this would be a good cheap reliable setup , but suspension is also equally important as the motor so keep that in mind.

Sassafrass

anyone else?

Simple SOHC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h22John &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> also for those of u who dont know and are thinkin of a susp setup the progress group has a susp kit specifically for h22 hatches. i havnt heard of how it works or anything but if its Progress it usually works pretty damn good..................john .......peace</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just curious...I'm running Integra Spring rate GC's right now...and was thinkin of gettin some stiffer ones after I get some new shocks. Any suggestions on which spring rate would be good with an H-Series swap?

Did you run your hatch before you beefed up the sways at all?...if so was there a lot of understeer or any instability?

toolowsol

I autocross my b18c (jdm gsr) with a b16 tranny and lsd, I can keep up with a lot of fast cars (stock porcshe, stock ITR, turbo hatches, audi's, VW's, turbo neons, MR2's, etc... This is all with my 93 del sol si (tein SS coilovers, GSR sway and lca, neuspeed front upper strut bar, rota's with falken azenis) but my buddy with a 93s with much more suspention work and better tires still beats me, on his 1.5l engine, its all in the suspension and driving, but when he drove my car, i still beat him (6 runs). So its not all in the engine, hook up your suspension first.

Evs-One

stock D16Z6 here...

&lt;--- first in class for the season.


Beat out 350 whp Tigers, trailered in MR2's, Miatas, etc.

It's all about driver. But if I had my choice of engine....LS engine with ITR tranny.

BauleyCivic

D16Y8 w/ 4.9 FD in an EG hatchback

Fowler.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Emerika GanGstA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LS engine with ITR tranny.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why's that? Torque or just the cost?

redrum eg6

actually a pretty tough question, because in auto-x your times depend a LOT more on driver skill, tires, lsd, and suspension. courses are always designed differently as well, some courses are much faster and need more power to be fast on them, while others are tighter and more technical.

another thing to consider is how you want to be classed and indexed. if youre just going for best raw times possible then go nuts and do whatever you want, but if you care how you place in your class, then just keep in mind how your engine choices are going to class you differently.

jeremyEG

id say a b20 with a type r tranny would be great for autox. you could even get away with a gsr tranny since the b20 makes very good low end tq.

i have a C1 in my hatch and i wish i had a little more low end. a type r tranny with 4.9 fd will help out a lot though

JookSingKid

GSR and LS tranny have the same gearing for 1st and 2nd, the only thing different is the final drive, so I don't know how much of a difference switching to a GSR tranny would make in an AutoX.

I have a b20 w/GSR LSD tranny in eg Hatch that I AutoX.

I find I have no problem finding the power that I need, and I find it very early in my powerband.

before I had a b16a, I would always be driving near redline to make power in many of the AutoXing turns.

DC2IntegraTypeR

I'm gonna start Auto-Xing soon, EG w/ USDM B18C1 but JDM OBD-I. I'm pretty used to driving it at high revs around low speed corners. You think I would still need torque too pull some of the turns off? I got Zeal B6's for suspension spring rate 12KG in front, 9KG in rear, dampening set at 4 for now, that's just for reference.

Evs-One

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fowler &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Why's that? Torque or just the cost?</TD></TR></TABLE>

midrange torque of the LS and the quick gearing plus LSD of the tranny

stevey

What about a K series hatch?

filthyCREX

i'd say, whatever has low end and what you feel most comfortable with. you dont want to be out there with something you can't or dont know how to handle!

h22John

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H23 EG Hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Just curious...I'm running Integra Spring rate GC's right now...and was thinkin of gettin some stiffer ones after I get some new shocks. Any suggestions on which spring rate would be good with an H-Series swap?

Did you run your hatch before you beefed up the sways at all?...if so was there a lot of understeer or any instability?</TD></TR></TABLE>i honestly dont know what spring rates you should run but im thinkin slightly stiffer than teg rates...not ALOT just a little more and only up front especially if this is a daily driver...........no i never ran the car without the exact setup i mentioned..and even the way it is its a bear to drive, my hands are constantly manipulating the steering wheel, and its really twitchy, thats ok if ur a great driver but im not lol. transitionally(slaloms) the car is awesome i cant get it out of shape if i try, at least on an auto-x course. sweepers are a pain cause ill spin the inside tire all the time at the top of second gear wich requires alot of steering input, not to mention our autox is run on a 1/2 mile tri-oval with steep banking, talk about adrenaline rush. then we drop down into an infield section for the tight stuff, and thats where the susp shows its weakness, its a bit too soft and pushes slightly and coming out of the corner its hard to keep the car pointed where u want it to go lol............its alot of fun anyway, but driving an H-hatch around a track is extremely involving and requires complete concentration at all times.....good luck....................john

Todd00

You folks autoxing the H22 in your Civics need to lay down the crack pipe if you think you have a car capable of handling even remotely close to a D or B series motor.

And the myth about 'balancing' the weight or upping the springrates in the front to make a H22 handle just as good is just that--a complete myth. No weight is good weight, period. The H22 adds what, about 185lbs right smack over the front wheels vs the D series that came out of the car? Why not just strap a fat lady to your front bumper while you're at it.

And autox is not really about power--It's about cornering speed. Just because the H22 has more torque coming out of a corner doesn't mean anything when a D series can carry a few more mph throughout the corner the entire way. And if you haven't noticed, autox has more turns that straights.

Also, any motor swap will land you in a class no less than Street Prepared. 95% of the time you'll end up in Street Modified. Read the rules for more info on this as often times local sources of information are poor, at best. See http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/ for a primer on the rules.


So to answer the original question--you want as light and as powerful of a motor as possible. And to counter this, you need to pick a class and build your car to those rules of you are serious about it. If not, then what does it matter what motor is in the car?

Let's not forget, autox is 90% driver anyways. I could take a bone stock 92 Civic Cx and whip a Z06 Corvette on Hoosiers if the Corvette driver doesn't really know what he is doing.