racerx510

head gasket on it's way out white smoke from exhaust when cold, hard starting, radiator always empty and all that jazz.

so i just pulled the head and im taking it in to be surfaced tomorrow morning but when i pulled it a bunch of water got in the cylinder and the space between the block and sleeve. i got the water out of the cylinders and most of the water out from the area between the block and sleeve.

how bad is it to reassemble the head with some moisture still between the sleeves and the block and does anyone have some ideas to get the remaining bits of fluid out of there?

the head gasket still looks good actually, it's the metal one, however at this point im sure its failing to seal the head due to warping from when the last radiator took a dump on me, there was issues with it running dry constantly as well.

any help is greatly appreciated.


+not my block but for reference+

yeahd00dshaun

The space between the sleeve and block is where the coolant flows, called "cooling jacket". So its not gonna harm anything at all if water gets down there. You should get the water/coolant out of the cylinder. I also, suggest using coolant instead of water when you fill it back up, otherwise your block is going to look like this one with surface rust all around it.

Just curious, did you drain your coolant system before removing the head?
What pattern did you remove the head bolts?

deschlong

iTrader: (8)

What engine code?

92 civic ex 4dr

He's having the head resurfaced, so it doesn't matter, and the head bolts are not torque-to-yield. Just as long as they are re installed in the correct order and torqued in the proper sequence.


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racerx510

didn't drain 1st, i disconnected upper radiator hose and nothing came out.
removed in 2 X patters:
2 - 5 - 9 - 7 - 3
4 - 8 - 10 - 6 - 1

i used water for a while til i got a new radiator a few months ago then went with a coolant water mix. faucet water is bad though. i talked to a shop owner a while back dudes a big sube racer, he said for cali u dont need coolant just water is fine but the catch to that is DISTILLED water to prevent like whats in the picture. i'll still be running a cup of coolant though just the same.

i was guessing it was the coolant jacket, i kinda paniced with all the water everywhere. the small holes are for head bolts and the larger 4 for oil.

thank u guys for the replies, anyone have the bolt order d16y8? im grabbing a new torque wrench in the morning.

beecee18

During the failure of the headgasket, did the engine ever heat up above normal operating temp, if so how much and how long did it overheat?

Regardless I would use a precision straightedge on the block deck to check for warpage, and inspect cylinder sleeve area for electrolosis/errosion irregularities that would inhibit a proper headseal.
I would do this prior to purchasing parts to slam the head back on.
I've seen too many of these things not hold headseals that look in way better shape then yours

Bix VT

I actually just had to do this recently on my 2000 EX. Make sure to clean both the block and head mating surfaces so you get a good HG seal.

racerx510

thank you Bix.
beecee. deck is clean, metal head gasket removed, wiped the deck to check for debris, hit it with a metal level looks legit. over heating would get to the top and i'd shut it down until it cooled off. happened a few times though

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

antifreeze also lubricates and protects your w/p. why cheap out on $10?

92 civic ex 4dr

Like eghatch said. And i don't give a **** where you live you need coolant/antifreeze. It lubricates your water pump, and any water that it's mixed with has to be distilled. Coolant has a higher boiling/flash vapor point than water. And the antifreeze has a lower freezing point than water. For someone, anyone to tell you that you can run ONLY water and it's ok, makes me think they are ******* stupid. At least they were smart enough to know to use distilled water. Water alone is not a good coolant.


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strategy400

Coolant lubes the water pump seal and protects against corrosion. Water may be OK in a race car but for a daily driver use coolant. I imagine even the race cars use some type of additive. Plus coolant leaves a nice green slime so you can tell if you have a leak.
Distilled water has no minerals to clog up your cooling system. If you don't buy the 50/50 mix you need some distilled water to dilute the coolant.

racerx510

yeah, a lot of track cars use water wetter. the benefit of coolant is it takes longer to heat up, the down side is that it does take longer to cool down, like i said though, i'll still be adding it in there. when i bought the new radiator i bought straight coolant to go with it not the 50/50. i'll just pick that up when i grab the new gasket and head studs.

94EG8

Some tracks (I know the local circle track does this) don't allow coolant for environmental reasons in case of an accident.

92 civic ex 4dr

That's weird. The antifreeze they use today, is no longer toxic and is now environmentally friendly (or so i have heard)


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eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

antifreeze slicks up a track when spilled, water does not.

strategy400

Well maybe a little.

92 civic ex 4dr

Very true. I do know that it's still sweet. The slimy i know. Just did a coolant system flush on my civic (to get rid of tap water) and i somehow managed to get it on my lips. Btw i hate bleeding a completely dry system. Dry heater core, dry block, dry radiator.


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beecee18

No argument of running coolant vs. water, the erosion/electrolosis/irregularities on the top of the cylinder block that turns your engine block into a paperweight is caused by running water for long periods of time.
To many factors that make antifreeze/coolant a necessity,
So use it.

I know you think the level looked legit, but in the service manual you can see the window of specs that it must be under for warping.
Using a set of feeler gauges you simply choose the Gauge of the maximum spec allowed before it needs servicing. While holding your true, perfect level (preferably precision straightedge) on the deck surface in multiple positions, then you use gauge to see if it slides under the level, hope it doesn't, this also sets any doubts to rest while completing the job.
Your eyes aren't used to do this, that is unless you have eagle eyes which would be rad.

Not trying to be negative but I have personaly seen a ton of Hondas not hold headseals after the motors been overheated. And I would hate to see you have another gasket pop.

racerx510

@ 92civicEX, im out to ur area in the family car tomorrow for a week, dumping coolant is an infraction and fine.

*well im done. took an hour to pull the head last night. dropped the head off 8:30am, had it surfaced and cleaned, let them pull the cam and rockers $80 picked up around 2.
-bought valve cover gasket $14, mine was torn
-head gasket @38
-harbor freight torque wrench $17 w/20% off and free screwdriver set
*the shop told me how to tell if i could reuse my head studs, what to look for, mine were still good
*started filling radiator n it was leaking by drain plug, wtf 5 month old radiator?!?! ripped it out, hit kragen for the warranty replace and $10 50/50 coolant

*head and radiator install took 2 hours, sounds and feels awesome. next project, input shaft bearing!

beecee18

good job!

92 civic ex 4dr

Glad you got it fingered out. Yes i meant to say fingered. Seems like yesterday was a good day for you and i as civic owners.


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92 civic ex 4dr

racerx510. Why the **** would you come out here where i live? i spend all of my time trying to leave. I HATE this place.

yeahd00dshaun

Well it sounds like you allready have everything bolted up. I would never ever re-use head studs. I've heard of too many horror stories. They were never designed to be re-used.

Also, I would invest in a quality torque wrench if you plan on using it for each project. My dad has one and it wasn't calibrated properly. Usually harbor freight tools are good once or twice and then something breaks or bends. lol.

Glad you got everything bolted up! Did that fix your overheating problem?

racerx510

thank you sir!

winning! in rialto, wife's mom bought a house

yeah, the overheating, vanishing fluid and white smoke problems all solved n drove it 250 miles back and forth to work the next morning at 4am. yeah it felt sketch using the bolts again but nobody had them, i took a random new bolt same pitch and thread and it lined up great but still, even though it may not "show" wear, once it's used for however long, it still has wear present. i was thinking while driving too. your motor spends it's whole life trying to blow itself apart, the block from the head, the head bolts keep it from doing so. i'ma order a full rebuild kit soon for the summer with arp studs, maybe even a 14g turbo for kicks. the torque wrench worked cool, it had the best reviews of the 3 they had, i thought about getting the digital torque reader but whatever, its a decent wrench, i'd trust it, they're impact sockets, i trust, screwdrivers there are pretty good as are the air tools, i've had 2 grinder discs explode in my face though. the oversized sockets are LEGIT! standard socket sets i'd rather stay sears loyal, i got a few hundred craftsman sockets, have broken 4 ratchets of a dozen, only ever lost 1 socket and broke 1 as well. right tool for the right job though is always important!

beecee18

This statement is wrong, other then the fact you refuse to re-use them.
Horror stories arent from used bolts either, I explain above why these vehicles wont hold headseals.

anybody who is trying to re-use OEM headbolts will encounter no problems unless the bolts have been overtorqued in the past causing the bolt to stretch beyond its maximum limit found in the service manual. You can measure them to check they are within spec.

Expecially if you are certain that it is the first time the head has been off after being assembled at the factory, cause you can rest assure Honda did not over torque and stretch these conponments.

If you search around you will be surprised to find out alot of the seasoned guys like myself prefer used torqued once from factory headbolts then new bolts.

And please dont bring up studs as it would not pertain to OP's circumstances.