Lordofdark176

alright so lately i've noticed that my car barely starts. If it sits for a while (atleast an hour) i have to hold the key down for a good 1-1.5 minutes before it cranks over, and it barely starts (sounds like it falls on its face and barely turns over). Drives fine when its cold. then once it heats up, it feels like it misfires a **** ton at low and high rpms (car shakes violently at high rpms) and feels like it is a 50hp 2 cylinder engine. Also when waiting for it to start while holding the key down, after about 9 seconds the cel comes on. It'l stay on until i turn the car off and start it again. So today i finally got around to scanning the code. Its throwing a number 8 code, Top Dead Center Sensor.

so i did some research and found out that a faulty tdc sensor causes the same symptoms i've been experiencing. I then called aaron at pure tuning (local shop) and he said that the tdc could be at fault and it seems like it makes sense. He told me that because i hvae an ob2 motor converted to obd1, the TDC sensor is located in the dizzy (its behind the timing belt cover on obd2 engines).

The cel doesnt come on when im driving, only when i sit there holding the key down for atleast 9 seconds. Car runs good when its cold (pulls hard like it should etc) but once it heats up it runs like **** (misfiring etc). Aaron said thats probably because when the engine heats up, the dizzy gets hot and is messing something electrical up.

So my question is do you guys think its a bad tdc sensor and it needs replaced, or just a bad connection of some sort (which is what i am thinking because the cel isnt on all the time, just when i hold the ignition down for 9 seconds when the car wont start). What kind of money am i looking to spend on a new tdc sensor if it needs replaced? Any other ideas? Let me know please. thanks!

97Ej6mike

Sounds like a timing issue. If a TDC sensor is indicating your not top dead center, chances are its right... your timings off. Ive never heard of those sensors going bad.

Lordofdark176

would the timing being retarted too mcuh cause this? originally when the car was tuned by the previous owner of the motor (he had it boosted) the tuner set the timing all the way advanced. I have since then bought the motor without the turbo, and go to the same person (same shop) that tuned it before. Last time i had the car there he set the timing back a little bit saying it was advanced too much, when i was running it fully advanced like it was when it had the turbo and was tuned.

Timing shouldnt change with poweradders right? And also ill re-iterate my question, would re-advancing the timing remedy this problem?

Lordofdark176

i think its something wrong with the dizyz and im going to need to replace the dizzy. anybody have an obd1 dizzy for sale?

97Ej6mike

Timing can go bad from just an engine being old. Timing belts wear out, stretch, jump teeth, ect. Id get it checked at a shop if you really arent sure how to do it yourself. Better safe than sorry. Keep in mind that if your timing belt is on its way out, and if it were to break during operation, it could spell disaster for your motor's head, for example, valves can be bent/broken if that were to happen.

Lordofdark176

i know, i was told the motor was rebuilt 10k ago. so far the guy has pretty much hacked the swap together and taken advantage of me not knowing at the time anything a bout the swap. Lieing about the engine mileage for the timing belt so that it would break and i'd be screwed would make him just a dick.

Syndacate

EDIT:
Blah, nvm.

Lordofdark176

bump anyone else have any other ideas?

SteamedRice

crap, im having the same problem with my DX motor (d15b7)/CX Chassis
this thread isn't finished unfortunately, but I will keep you posted if I figure out what the problem is...

the swap was done about 2 weeks ago and im throwing an 8 (TDC)

good tuners (IMO) do tune ups to engines that they just swapped in, considering they dont know what kind of condition the engine is in when they recieve it/swap it.

if this is completely true and you have the money available i would suggest doing the timing and replacing the cap and rotor first to see if that fixes the problem. the *edit*TDC sensor or the* entire dizzy would be my next guess if the CEL persists.

if this sounds like a good idea let me know, either way ill keep you updated




Modified by SteamedRice at 3:25 PM 11/22/2007

Lordofdark176

turns out my starter was bad, that solved the whole starting problem. the car still runs like *** even with a dizzy i bought off of ebay, so im suspecting its a bad coil or igniter, as it only runs like *** after its been running for a while.

SteamedRice

are you still throwing the TDC/CYL Sensor CEL 8? the chilton suggests you change the dizzy since those sensors and the dizzy are one assembly "to save space and weight". when i went to the emission controls section it shot me to that paragraph. i have a CX running a DX motor but i dont think it would make the difference with the CEL.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97Ej6mike &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds like a timing issue. If a TDC sensor is indicating your not top dead center, chances are its right... your timings off. Ive never heard of those sensors going bad.</TD></TR></TABLE>

my guess is 97Ej6mike is right, since the dizzy and those 2 sensors are one deal. i'll get a new OEM dizzy from NAPA tomorrow and let you know if it clears the CEL after 20 minutes of running the engine to the dirt.

SteamedRice

whoops, almost forgot about this thread... lol.

changed the dizzy and got rid of the CEL, still a poopy idle tho. should change with a new PCV valve, dizzy cap, wires and plugs... i dont think i'll do all that tho, i'm trying to save up for my JDM GSR so i'll have a crappy idle for a month or two

BLinindoll

its because you have no crank fluctuation sensor (in the oil pump/behine the timing belt cover.) you're obd2 computer is looking for a signal but there is none... hense, it runs like **** and throws a code. an obd1 civic only uses a crank position sensor located in the dizzy. the link below is what you need to do. you can tap into the ckp sensor and use it's signal instead of a signal from a non existant cfk sensor.

http://www.ff-squad.com/technet/ckftrick.htm


I have done this and I know it works first hand. I had a 95 engine in my 97 for a while and I did this and it worked fine. good luck

Can't believe i'm the first one to catch this

SteamedRice

mines OBD1

BLinindoll

your what? engine or car? cause your first post is a little confusing as to what year or obd system your car actually is. your signiture says you have a 94 (which i just noticed now) but it also says your engine is a 95 (which is obd1) so i guess im a little confused as to what you are actually working with

SteamedRice

lol its all good, both are obd1, i fixed my CEL prob but i'm going to swap another engine in soon so idk what would fix the rough idle, but my guess would be a tune up. i kinda jacked the OP's thread tho... lol

BLinindoll

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SteamedRice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol its all good, both are obd1, i fixed my CEL prob but i'm going to swap another engine in soon so idk what would fix the rough idle, but my guess would be a tune up. i kinda jacked the OP's thread tho... lol </TD></TR></TABLE>

oh jeeze... for a sec i thought you were the op. yeah, i was talking to the op in my original post.

SteamedRice

woot! cleaned out my IACV (small thingy on the back of your intake manifold) and that fixed my "searching idle" problem

hatchback freek

can any one help me on cel code 9?

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2177936

mmafighter130

i believe your timing is off (valve timing) usually the car wont start at all if that sensor goes bad.