Jimi Hondrix

Just purchased (on New Years Eve) a stock 1998 Civic EX, A/T, 145K miles, no prior service records, for my daughter attending college and after a few days of driving it I might have buyer's remorse. If, it turns out to be a turd I put the blame on myself because, I feel like I may have rushed the purchase and could have taken more precautions. We searched craigslist and local newspapers for a couple weeks and tried out late 90's - early 2000's Accords, Acura, Saab, Toyota, BMW vehicles. Realistically, in the price range we were searching $1000 - $2000 I knew issue(s) are to be expected so, we were hoping to find a car that may need up to $400 in repairs/upgrades to be a daily driver.

I recently owned a stock '98 Civic EX (manual) for three years with minimum issues and that experienced influenced the purchase for my daughter. She wasn't picky and said she likes older cars, her only request was it must be an automatic transmission. I tried to tell her the advantages of a manual, especially with high mileage cars but, she is set on an A/T. We narrowed our picks to the Civic ($1600) and a 2001 Saab 9-5 2,3L Turbo ($2000) with a questionable 88K miles (odometer/speedometer not working) which immediately threw up a red flag. The Saab was well taken care and showed, drove and rode very nice but, since I have never owned a turbo and not knowing the exact mileage it seemed like a big risk and figured future parts would be expensive.

Now to the pros and cons (so far) of the Civic. We bought it from an automotive shop . We test drove it but, without a plate and not insured. We ended up doing backstreet driving and not above 45 m.p.h (mistake). When we returned from the test drive we racked the car and checked for oil leaks, transmission leaks, suspension, exhaust leaks, rust and steering parts ( as best as I know how) Our initial test drive yielded:

1) Handle well, engine strong, transmission shifting smooth.
2) We turned in tight circles to listen for CV axles and no clicking.
3) We tested out all the lights, switches, and electronics all good except driver's window stuck in up position (most likely regulator or cable)
4) Tested brakes by letting go wheel at 25 mph and braking on a level road.. slight pull to right and slight shuddering (rotors, pads or calipers).
5) Bounced the car and shocks/struts rebounded nicely.
6) All gauges working, no CEL or other warnings.
7) All seat belts working (retract slowly)
8) A/C and heat is very good
9) Tires are not matching and have 80% tread on all four.
10) The interior is very good. No cracks on dash or plastics. Cloth seats are not ripped.
11) Door handles, locks, trunk, gas/trunk levers working well.
12) Aftermarket JVC stereo/cd player, left rear speaker blown, surprisingly front tweeters and coaxial work.

The body is in good shape except for a large dent just in front of passenger side rear tire well. Headliner and sunroof material is shot and needs replacement Sun visors worn out need replacement. Hood handle broken as almost all are. Trunk is slightly damp and most likely in need of rubber molding.

What racking the car revealed after test drive:
1) Rear main seal leak... car running, drip between transmission and block, is not coming from o-ring, valve cover or V-tech gasket.
2) Questionable crankshaft or camshaft leak... no active drip but, a bead of oil underneath base of crankshaft pulley
3) No transmission leak
4) Front control arms and rear trailing arm bushings are very solid and seem to be in good shape. Tie rods are firm, No apparent ball joint issues.
5) No rust, No apparent frame damage
6) No exhaust leaks and in good shape. No apparent cracks in manifold or smell of exhaust leak (gas/rotten eggs).

Why I decided to buy it:
It was a hard decision and I asked the guy selling it to give me a couple of hours to think about after we checked it all out and test drive, We (daughter - 21, son - 18m, myself) had lunch, discussed it, and put together a price list for repairs. My son and his friend will do all labor I pay his friend for his work, but he doesn't charge much and he is very knowledgeable with Civics. He has done 3 rear main seals A/T's and M/T's.
I felt that at the price we agreed on ($1600) the positives outweighed the negatives and it's just leaks and no apparent major mechanical issues. The body and cosmetic stuff can be handled over time, although I plan to try my hand at the body work fairly soon with guidance from a friend. The A/T is a concern and it will have a drain and fill during the rear main seal job.I plan to do one every 30K (depending on the length of ownership).

Why I feel remorse:
Besides the known aforementioned issues, we think we might have a drivers side front frozen brake caliper, possible warped rotor, bearing, axle? we discovered today while trying to rotate tires. The lug nuts were hot, we removed them but could not get the rim off. Also, there was dripping brake fluid on the rim. I knocked on the back of the rim with a rubber mallet while rotating and my son pulling but, no movement and wouldn't budge. Letting it cool off and then soaking it with PB overnight then taking it to a shop tomorrow to get a lifetime balance/rotation. I felt pulsating at higher speeds emanating from the front driver's after we purchased it and drove over 45 mph. I just hope this is not a sign of things to come.

What are my regrets:
1) That I didn't exercise more patience
2) I bought a car without service records
3) I didn't buy a car from a long term owner (preferably a single owner)
4) That I test drove a car that wasn't insured and plated
5) That I didn't drive it on the highway and get it up to speeds where I might have felt pulsating/shuddering.

What are my hopes:
1) That the needed repairs will total $400 or less
2) After the repairs my daughter has a solid daily driver
3) That it holds up mechanically as well as my previous '98 Civic
4) My daughter loves her first car (we shared mine until college) even though it's a beater.

Future maintenance:
1) Timing belt kit soon (if needed, upon inspection)
2) Oil change, PCV valve, transmission drain and fill during rear main seal replacement.
3) Power steering fluid change
4) Coolant change (if needed)
5) Tire rotation and balance
6) Four wheel alinement

All comments, suggestions, opinions welcomed and thanks for reading my novel.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

What's the technical issue here?

09chaplak

Grumble at his finest haha OP, although the purchase was rushed you can still find some relief in your purchase by learning from it. There is a wealth of information on maintenance, especially on a car like the one you purchased. If you have some time and do your research, you'll be able to perform almost all of your future maintenance hopes by yourself saving some money and be able to achieve all your hopes. Sometimes the thought has crossed my mind as to why I get into things halfway through or when I think I'm finished and something else pops up. But when it's all said and done, as long as I learn from it and pass on the knowledge to someone else who needs it I think it's all good! It's a great learning experience and at least you didn't go with the Saab, that's a positive you can walk away with. But yea, I would make sure that the next time you post in this section, you contain something with technical relevance or else it will get moved/closed and that's no fun. Good luck!

Jimi Hondrix

I'm familiar with grumblemarc.. he doesn't bother me.

Thank you 09chaplak for your reply. Now that I've gotten the car's introduction and it's known issues out of the way I will post specific technical issues if, and when they arise.

angrysmileyface

The majority of those issues are mostly suspension/braking elements. The vibration is possibly an out of balance tire or a broken belt in the tire or maybe a bent rim. Even though its an autotragic, I would still say you got a decent car. As others have said there is a wealth of info on the forum. Determine what problems you do have, dont shotgun parts and search the forums for your answers.

Jimi Hondrix

Thanks for the reply.
Tomorrow I plan to slightly loosen the lugs o the stuck rim and drive it at a low speed in a side to side swerving motion and hope to loosen the rim. Being that we noticed yesterday it had brake fluid dripping on the rim my guess is a leak from the brake hose which is causing uneven caliper pressure and friction. If it's the caliper should I rebuild it or replace it?

ek9_beast

Most parts on these cars are very affordable so replacements are the better route for peace of mind in the future if you have the means to. Especially when you're putting your own daughter behind the wheel. Sounds like some real heat has hit that entire side with the issues so keep in mind if that wheel is giving u that much trouble, the rest of that corner is going to be real trouble. Soak all nuts and bolts with rigorous amounts of pb blaster well ahead of time and hope for the best. Never heard the loosen lug nut and swerve deal but more power to ya. I hope for your daughter's sake that the car is reliable for her because for my wife I wouldn't want her stranded where some creep pulls up to "help".

TomCat39

Besides doing the 3x3 drain and fill on the transmission, I would also spend 16 bucks on a magnefine transmission filter and add it after the cooler on the return line. It will do a much better job of catching all the material of the transmission and give you a longer life span on the weakest link of that car.

Unfortunately that generation automatics were one of the worst ever put out by Honda and are notorious for problems.

The filters are cheap but very efficient in prolonging automatics.

ek9_beast

^this
Place the magnefine filter in the return line as the car is older and bound to have gunk in the cooler within the radiator. If it was a new car I would say put it in the supply line but with time gunk/trash has gotten in that cooler. It's a 10 minute install where on our cars you can just cut the line in half, slip both ends on the filter(with clamps) and mount to the frame. That along with the brake/wheel fix and a nice tune up/fluid change will suppress your remorse. Hopefully lol

Jimi Hondrix

Thank you ek9_beast I appreciate your concern for my daughter's safety.

I hit it with PB blaster last night and will try the swerve action later today. The swerve tip came from an "Eric The Car Guy" video: .When I get behind the rim I can determine if it is the caliper, brake hose or both. From researching, if it is the caliper, it's usually the pin that is the issue. Also, I might have to replace the wheel bearing.
Thanks also for the recommendation for the magnefine filter, I will get one.

Considering, that in my local area 90's Civics sell fast, hold their value, and it's hard to find one with less than 200K miles I do feel I paid about $200 more than what the car is really worth but, I don't think it is a lemon.. needs some TLC and hopefully it will payoff in reliability and longevity. Definitely, can't be more expensive than interest, devaluation, and added insurance cost of a financed used or new car.

belairbrian

Jimi,

I'm going through this process with a 99 accord I got for my daughter. I managed to find a trade in at a Honda dealer with 160k with maintenance records including timing belt service. The major issue is a braking vibration. Will have all the parts to do a complete brake swap out by weeks end. The only parts I'll be keeping are the hard lines and prop valve. Just not comfortable with a bunch of 15 year old rubber parts in the brake system. Son and I should knock it out in less then a day.

Already replaced every fluid in the thing. Still need to adjust the valves and replace the worn wiper linkage. Then it's done.

ek9_beast

No reason to have remorse. U bought it and it'll all work out. Everything happens for a reason

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Least helpful post of 2015.


OP, I don't think you did too bad on this deal. Your wheel is likely stuck on because of corrosion between the hub/rotor and wheel.

You might have brake caliper pins that are stuck. If you need a bracket, rebuild kit, or caliper, those aren't very expensive.

Lots of people have had luck with rockauto.com for parts. If the car needs a set of pads and rotors and some calipers...I can't see it being much more than $200. It's too bad the rear main seal is leaking...but as long as your son's friend knows what he's doing, it's not much of a hurdle.

The vibrations you're feeling could be from a lot of things. Especially if you're saying that one of the brakes is stuck on.

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

+1


No matter what older car you were to buy you have to expect to do some maintenance. Hondas are known for reliability and the 90's civics are still on the road (not too many automatics tho)

Be glad you dont have a car payment and just fix whatever arises. Like said above, theres plenty of knowledge on HT and most everything can be fixed with basic tools.


Good luck with it

deschlong

iTrader: (8)

Eric The Car Guy has some good tips in there for removing a stuck rim. Towards the end he recommends driving a car around with loose-ish lug nuts.

I have a similar suggestion I would recommend even before you get to that point, and even before you get a mallet out: Loosen the lugs A BIT, then lower the car to the ground, and rock the car side-to-side. Weight of the car plus side to side rocking motion might get a stuck rim off, with little risk of damage to rim or tire caused by whacking with a hammer. Seems like the easiest first solution to try out of your possible options.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I encountered a stuck wheel once.

I kicked the **** out of it.

tony_2018

OP keep in mind that you will have to do maintenance regardless of anything, its an older car. I did the same with mine when I dropped in another motor. I made sure I hit up any seals that were hard to get to and all belts. So, to me, this is not buyers remorse. Think of it this way, your daughter isn't the best person to take care of maintenance on the car so why not handle the majority of it now while you can.

Jimi Hondrix

I got the rim off by lifting the tire off the ground slightly, car on jack stand, turned wheel all the way to left, slid full-sized spare against stuck tire/rim, kicked the spare from the front of the car while invoking chi from Super-foot Wallace and the rim came off in two blows...Roadhouse.
It looks like one or more of the rim mounting studs may be slightly bent?
I put the rim back on for an hour and I had to kick it off again. Also, noticed some anti-seize paste around a couple of the mounting bolts. Can those mounting bolts be adjusted/bent to proper position or would new ones need to be pressed in?

A few issues *besides the mounting studs) have arisen post rim removal:
1) Caliper is leaking. Guide pins and mounting bracket are in good shape. With the caliper off the axle spins freely/ on par with AT resistance. I take it as a further sign that the old caliper piston was not working correctly and the friction caused the heat radiated to the lugs.
2) Rack and pinion bellow's boot is torn
3) Both inner and outer tie rods need replacement as there is free-play in both.
4) Tire rim has dent on and inside lip

My son and I replaced the caliper, new brake pads, cleaned and re-greased (synthetic) guide pins. The caliper came with new guide pins but, the existing were better quality and we used them. We bled the new caliper and will do all four brakes this Wednesday before we use the car, We rented a inner tie rod tool and I was surprised that the old inner tie rod came out so easily. Seemed like it was maybe a turn past hand tight. When we put the new one in the adapter we used to loosen the old one was too small and the next size up was too big so, I used channel locks to tighten it to a turn or so past hand tight. I didn't use loc-tite..should I remove it and add some? Is there a torque spec I should follow?
Should I replace the passenger side tie rods too?

Another issue we ran into is the new Moog bellow boot we purchased from O' Rielly's seems to be too small at the rack and pinion side. We didn't try using a bit of synthetic grease on the boot lip, because I don't know if that would void a return? When compare to the old one there is a noticeable difference in circumference . We didn't have time (getting dark) to buy a $32 one from the dealer so, as it stands we wrapped the inner tie rod's greased fitting with aluminum foil and have not attached the outer tie rod yet.

We wanted to pull off the rotor while we had the caliper and bracket off but, I don't have an impact drill. With the new caliper and brakes the rotor is slightly rubbing when brake is off, but as far as my experience that is not uncommon. My son's friend has an air impact setup and if the rotor is an issue it can be addressed during the main seal fix. We also plan to put new pads on the passenger side brakes.

I still have faith it's not a terrible purchase and both my son and I are learning more about car repairs. Also, I'd much rather these issues pop up now rather than while my daughter is driving it. Thanks for all the replies so far.

TomCat39

If I recall we had another person back a month or two ago trying to get that bellows boot on and found that any aftermarket boot just didn't fit no matter what, but as soon as they ordered and received the OEM boot from the dealership they got that boot on (OEM not aftermarket).

lostforawhile

waiting for the transmission to fail, ......tick......tick.......tick......tick

Jimi Hondrix

Lol... Thanks dude. With 145K on any automatic transmission it's always a matter of tick.tick.tick. Maybe it will be this car's mission in life to prove all it's doubters wrong

94EG8

I remember that thread.

Jimi Hondrix

It's a bit frustrating because we would have been done with the repair other than bleeding the other three lines. Is it okay to use zip ties on the bellows boot? We purchased a couple metal fasteners but, it seems they need specific tool to loosen them. Looks like the bigger one on the left except the two they sold us are coiled tighter than the circumference of the rack/pinion side of the boot: Import Direct Chassis MC05006 - Rack And Pinion Bellow Kit | O'Reilly Auto Parts

lostforawhile

these transmissions self destruct, do some searching for failed transmission Honda civic, I had one too, was maintained properly and died an early death, I wouldn't put my kid in one, one minute it was fine, the next minute the car wouldn't go more then five miles an hour, let it sit, it's fine, then it will lose the ability to accelerate, repeat, same thing pretty much for all of them that fail, the clutch packs fail, fill the transmission full of crap, which causes a loss of fluid pressure, so the clutch packs slip even worse, which causes more crap in the system. Yiuur transmission is made by Mitsubishi if that says anything. They are hands down the worst transmission Honda ever put in a car, when it fails,which it will, your only real option is to swap in a five speed, which on these cars is pretty involved, you can get it rebuilt, but the reliability of these rebuilt is pretty bad, and costly, you can try to source another transmission, but all of them for this generation have the same issues, so you have no way of knowing what you are getting, it may last 100,000 it may last 100 miles, most likely the latter

lostforawhile

most recent of many threads on how bad they are https://honda-tech.com/honda-civic-d...y-say-3233940/