Bumnah

I finally finished installing the inserts. It was real pain in the *** like everyone else before has said, but I think the results are worth the headache.

Stuff installed:

Energy Suspension Hyperflex kit for a 92-95 civic
Energy Suspension 92-95 civic trailing arm kit
Energy Suspension Motor mount inserts
Prothane ITR rear LCA kit

The Hyperflex kits is pretty good. I used everything except for the powersteering bushings and the rear lca bushings (itr rear lca's). Only thing I didn't like about the kit was it didn't pair up sleeves with the bushings you need for each hole in the LCA. It does have the bushing # stamped on them so it's easy figure out what polyurethane insert is for what hole in the lca's. I used a caliper and measured the inner diameter and length of the inner metal sleeves needed. It was a littler over kill to do that, because you can figure out what sleeve to use by making sure the bolt will go through the sleeve easily, and the sleeve inserts into the polyurethane bushings perfectly. And the lenth should be obvious. Anyways once I got all the bushings together, and the sleeves. I started the hard part, removal of the bushings. Once the bushings are out just lay on the grease and just pop the new bushings in place. I just hammered them in within' 5 seconds with a ton of grease. Any extra grease just spews out. (If you wanna know how I got the rubber bushings out do a search on it for my username in this forum.)

I used axle grease on anything that the polyurethane touched. I used a ton of grease because Ididn't wanna have to go back and regrease cause getting the polyurethane out would be a bitch to do.

Anyways I did the whole front end at one time. When I went back to install everything, it fit fine. Everything was a lot tighter. I had to put alot more muscle into lining up the damper forks to the lca's and so forth. I also noticed my suspension stayed more "loaded" when I jacked up the front. The hardest part is the front. I was lucky I used a Progress camber kit and I replaced the pieces that the upper arm to the chassis. If you are gonna use the stock pieces I would have the rubber pressed out. Their is less rubber to work with. It's possible to remove the stuff at home, it'll just be harder to do.

The rear I approached the same way. There were significantly less bushings to do, but if you have ITR rear lca's it's twice as big of a pain in the ***. The hyperflex kit doesn't have any bushings for the upper arms connected to the trailling arms, but that doesn't matter there is very little rubber their anyways. The Hyperflex kit does not have the trailling arm bushings either, so you have to buy those seperartely. Those bushings are def worth it. My trailling arm bushing rubber was old and worn out, you could tell there was a lot of flex and movement in the back by just looking at the trailing arm bushings.

The ITR rear lca bushings are made by only two people as far as I know, Mugen and Prothane. Prothane is $50, and Mugen's is $70 I believe. I bought the Prothane cause I'm cheap :D. Removal of the stock rubber is same like the other bushings but install is different. With the Prothane you get a new metal sleeve you have to press in, and then you have the polyurethane inserts. The diameter on the sleeve is different on each end. The larger diameter part of the sleeve goes in the back of the LCA. You insert the sleeve from the back of the LCA. I tried to press it in on my own but no way it was gonna happen. I took it to my friend we pressed in the sleeves. You have to insert something in the middle of the lca when you are pressing the new sleeve in. If you don't put something in the middle, the whole LCA starts squishing together (you'll know what I'm saying when you start doing it yourself). Anyways once you get the sleeves pressed in, it's cake from there. Grease up everything and push it all together. I did grease up the sleeves that I installed.

Installing everything is pretty straight forward but it all fits really tight. I had a bitch of a time lining up the lca's to the trailling arm, but it all fit nicely at the end.

Some things to remember when doing the trailing arm bushings. The middle sleeves from the original bushings is reused. They have a hole on each side. One hole is more circular and the other hole is move oval. The oval hole is suppose to be on the outside of the trailing arm (outside being closest to the side of the car. I measured how much the center pin protruded from the trailing arm metal and when I put the center pin in again I got it close to the same distance. I believe the distance I measured was 63 mm.

The motor mounts.

JUNK. I knew they sucked when I ordered them. The front tiny mounts only ES makes. So I bought the kit just for them. The polyurethane is soft, tooo soft. But it was the only thing I could buy. If prothane releases a kit, but that.

The rear mount was complete trash. I could squeeze the rear polyurethane inserts with my hand. I have the Prothane rear mount inserts at my house, and it's a thousand times better. I recommend the Prothane motor mounts over ES anyday! I recommend Prothane over ES on everything. Their kits are more complete, and the polyurethane is actaully stiff.

Impressions.

I drove it a little (needs alignment bad).I noticed signficantly less bounce. With my spring rates I noticed my car would hop over tiny bumps. The car still hops over tiny humps but it doesn't go up and down at all. Once it comes back down it's back to normal. I'd have to say my ride quality has increased. I noticed less weight transfer around turns and I wanna say a little more oversteer in the back but it's been a while since I've drivin' the car so I could be talking out of my ***.

I think once it's aligned I'll notice a big difference.

I would recommend this upgrade to anyone who has an older civic. EG's especially. The rubber is very worn out on most civic's that old so the upgrade would be very beneficial. If you have a brand new car, wait a little and then do it.

Solo2Vtec

Good info

Blue-Civic-Hybrid

iTrader: (1)

Did you notice any harshness increase in your daily driving? Any increase in vibrations from your motor mounts to the inside of your cabin? The reason I am asking this is because I helped a friend install his motor mounts (ES) and there was a definite increase in cabin vibration and noise...

kommon_sense

Also, have you noticed any squeaking so far? If so, is it tolerable?

Stryker908

you felt the ride was improved ? you mean just more responsive or more comefortable ?

(My girl hates the lowerd ride I bought her a sports bra but I guess thats not enough I think im just gona have to brake up with here if she dosnt stop complaining about my car LOL im sick ! )

EX R8ED

Bumnah comes through again! Great review. Sounds like too much work, shops must charge an ***-load to do this install! Get an alignment and let us know how it feels.

piscorpio

Nice write up.

That's two good reviews in one day, I feel a bit light headed.

EGO

I would also like to know about harshness. How about answering the following...

How has ride quality changed in

-stiffness; increased or decreased
-noise; increased or decreased (rattling of panels, interior)
-turn in
-taking turns; more or less confidence
-comfortable factor; increased or decreased

Thanks

Bumnah

I used to have Prothane motor mount inserts, and I had a large amount of vibration. I replaced the Prothane motor mounts with HASport motor mounts and the ES inserts for the front stabalizer mounts. I didn't drive my car long enough to notice any increase or decrease of cabin vibration.

No I didn't notice any squeaking. I used a ton of grease on all the bushings to try and avoid that problem all together. I do have an exhaust rattle but that's not related to the bushings.

More responsive. I'd have to say more comfortable also because there's less bouncy ness.

Thanks, and I'll edit this post after an alignment.

Try to control yourself.

Bumnah

Increase, but not harsh.
Same or less. I've always had a lot of cabin noise since the car is gutted.
Didn't drive it long enough to make a proper decision.
Less confident cause the car isn't aligned at all.
Increased because it doesn't bounce upand down as much.


Stiff but comfy.

Bumnah

bump

shermanyang

iTrader: (1)

my buddy with a vx hatch w/B20 swap has the the motor mounts and front suspension upgraded to polyurethane and his car vibrates really bad. honestly, it was so bad that so far it has cracked his windshield. but hey, i'm still gonna get it once i have the funds to.

kommon_sense

Now that you have been riding on this setup for a week or so, what do you think of it?

lsvinny

I did the samething and like it alot. hardy no wheel hop. ride is alot better. and no squeaks. p.s. the best way i found out to get the old one out and to leave the sleeves in was to heat the crap out of them.


[Modified by lsvinny, 7:08 PM 4/3/2003]

owen_the_soyboy

great write up!
for ya

euclid

awesome writeup man, i have the es bushings all around, except for my itr lcas, and i have the prothane trailing arm bushings, big difference i must say. what did you wedge in between the itr lcas so they wouldnt collapse, i know exactly what you are talking about, i am thinking about a socket or something...

EDIT: a search for for your topics didnt come back with any results for removing the old bushings... could you do me a favor and just explain exacty how you got the old rubber out of the itr lcas without damaging them, i will be doing this project in a few weeks... thanks again bro


[Modified by euclid, 12:43 AM 4/4/2003]

all stock

awesome informative post...these are dying now-a-days...

CivicSiRacer

I too installed my ES bushings, but didn't get the trail arm bushings on my 2000 Civic Si.

I did it the lazy way and dropped it off at a shop since I didn't have time or the tools.

My kit took 14 hours to install at a rate of $50/hour. Yes it's crazy but I'm looking for that every last ounce of cornering power for competition. My kit was missing the front upper arm bushings and we had to deal with ES. Talk about POOR POOR customer service - THEY SUCK!

So what was supposed to take one overnight delivery took over a week. I was pissed at ES.

Anyway had the car aligned on Friday without the front Skunk2 camber kit and the car felt great. Instead of turning the steering wheel, car dives a little, and then turning - now the car turns! And I mean like an extention of your arm.

Had the Skunk2 camber kit installed with the new one week late bushings and had everything re-aligned and corner weighted today. 2.5 negative front, 1.8 rear, 0 toe front and rear. And now the car feels even better. Can't wait to the first autocross of the year for our region on Sunday.

Bumnah

Alrighty here's my review after the alginment.

Finally got her aligned and found new problems.

I noticed a significant amount of rubbing and scraping. I also had weird brakes. If I pumped them up they'd work fine. After the first use. I'd have to pump them up again.

I didn't open up the lines when I did the work, so I didn't see how the brake lines had air in 'em. I was thinking perhaps a dieing master cylinder.

After worryin' about it for a few hours I got a chance to jack the car up at my friends house and see what's up. It turns out one of my axle nuts was lose and started to come out. I tightened up the axle nut, and I cut some fender liner to get rid of anything hitting the wheels. I checked the other side to see how the axle nut was, and it was fine. That has appeared to fix 99% of my problems. Brakes are fine no odd rubbing or scratching.

Differences:
The car seems to be lower right off the bat, I dunno if it's because of my camber kit or what but the car is def. lower on all four sides. I dunno how that could've happened, but it did. I maintain almost full suspension load in the rear. With the rear jacked up I have a 2 finger gap between the rear tires and the fender well. Pretty mean looking .

Driving impressions: Simply put the car is more stable around everything. I didn't do crazy with it, but I def. did push it around turns. It seems to turn in well. There is signficatnly less "spongeness". I have greater confidence throwing the car into turns. I shifted hard into second in a hard left turn, the front end stayed on line no weird movements no wheel hop. The car is def. stiffer. There is not cushioning of the little bumps. But there is also no bouncy effect.

The car feels rejuvenated. I also have no odd squeaks from the bushings. I dunno if they develop over time or what, but I hope I don't have any squeaks. Everyone should go crazy with the grease doing their stuff.

Hopefully this post was helpful.

Yeah both methods work well. The grinding wheel only ran me like 4 bucks though.

Thanks buckaroo

The way I did the itr lca's was: I took 2 sockets, to brace the side from to side so one side wouldn't go lower. The sockets were different sizes I don't remember what sizes but i tested a few before I got the right ones. I also found out the plates used with the press happened to fit almost pefectly inside the itr rear lca's so it was real quick and painless. You'll need a press to get the metal sleeve in. Go from the back of the lca cause the hole in the back is larger than the front. Back being where you'd screw your endlink bolt into.

Unfortunately, this is a true statement. Oh well.

Jonathan_ED3

Great write up!

What I want to know....

When you hit a bump, does it sound like the dashboard is going to fall off?

and make you car feel like a cheap *****?

Or is it nice and SOLID? (by solid i don't mean hard, I mean like shutting a Lexus door, and then shutting your gutted Civic CX door )

Bumnah

nah I don't have sounds like the dash is gonna fall off when i drive over a bump, and no it still sounds like a civic door when i close it, cause it's a civic door gutted.

viet

good info, thats probably gonna be my next upgrade

-DC2-

i finished installing my entire kit a year ago this month

my impressions:

1. install was easy, but very tedious. on a 11yr old car i had to heat EVERY bolt on the suspension to get the stuff apart. i replaced EVERY bolt as well with OEM honda. i spent nearly $100 on bolts alone

2. the chassis feels MUCH tighter and there is a TON more road feel. the car feels infinitely more stable at speed and under hard cornering. i've taken it to 110 on several occasions, and it feels very stable.

3. harshness is not increased.

4. lack of maintenance required is great. i have not had to do ONE thing since the install. i greased them up well initially, but not excessively, and i have not had even one single squeak... nothing.

overall, it was an essential upgrade to the beat and tired suspension on my 11yr old hatch. with 200k+ miles, it was more than needed. i am very satisfied with the product.


[Modified by DOHCDX, 9:34 PM 4/4/2003]

Heinz57

Hey Bumnah, I'm not sure if you stated this in this thread or another...but I was wondering about how much time you spent on each interval installing the bushings ( front; back...) unless you did everything at one time.

Do you have more than one car to allow your civic to stay in your garage if you weren't done?

I'm asking this, because I too, really want a full bushing kit...I pretty much have the tools/resources I need...but I only have one car...I have a 92 hatch..and when I installed my springs/shocks last year, i noticed all my bushings were dead. Do you think it is possilbe to remove/install the kit in a weekend? from morning to night? if not, how long? thanx.

jg

Not sure if you guys knew this or not...Prothane's rear trailing arm bushing is an entire unit that presses in. Press out the old, stock bushing, then press in the new Prothane--cake . No heating, burning, fires, or cussing out "son's of bitches" ..... Much easier and headache free with the Prothane trailing arm piece.