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Old 04-20-2010, 09:02 AM   #1
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Default Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

I'm sure this has been covered before but I searched and couldn't find a definate answer. My question is, is it possible to change your pistons and rings from the bottom of the engine while it's still in the car? And if it is possible what else would I need to change? Engine is b18c1 in a 92 civic hatch.
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:05 AM   #2
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

It is possible s long as your block doesn't need machining. But if I were going to do it, I would pull the engine out and go ahead and do main bearings and thrust washers too, cover it all while you are down there. But as far as your question, it is not bad to do at all.
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:20 AM   #3
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

Well the engine has around 80k on it and it's smoking like a train. 1 cylinder has lower compression than the rest so I'm sure it's the rings also just had my head rebuilt like 2k miles ago. I know I know I shouldve done everything while the head was in the shop but I thought the burnt valve was the cause of the smoke and I guess I learned a valuable lesson there. Thanks for the quick reply by the way civic
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:40 AM   #4
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

All you have to do is pull the head, oil pan, and girdle. Then you can unbolt each piston individually and slide it out the top. When you want to put the new one back, just slide it in through the top and secure it to the crank. The only downside to this method is that you cannot machine the block or change any of the main thrust bearings. Good luck
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:02 AM   #5
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

damn i would hate to do this.i could have the engine out in 2.5 hours and on en engine stand. and the rest i could either strip the block for machining to have it done right. (no need to learn another valuable lesson) or i could send it to the machine shop and let them strip it machine it and rebuild it for a few bucks more. i doubt your new pistons and rings are going to be the correct size. you at least need to hone the cylinder walls. and you have to have the piston wist pins removed and installed anyways. i would just do it right instead of crawling around on the ground for 2 days trying to do it your way.
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:36 AM   #6
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

Pull the motor......do it right.
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

someone correct me if im wrong, but the block needs to be honed for the new rings to seal properly. And that would be a bitch if not impossible with the engine in the car.

still it wouldnt even be much more work to just pop the motor out.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:33 PM   #8
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

get two friends together you could get it out on a stand and fully apart in 2 hours.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

it is not impossible to hone the block with the crank in.. you just have to turn the crank so that the crank is at its sideways position for each cylinder... it is possible to do exactly what you want to it.. only downfall is that there cannot be any actual machinework done to it...it is even possible to change the main bearings but once again, no machine work.. and after honing the block there must be a real good cleanup of all the parts....
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:59 PM   #10
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

Your car may smoke less but without a cylinder hone it's still going to smoke. You should replace the front and rear main seals while you are at it, complete overhaul!
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:06 PM   #11
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

i agree... best way is to bore and deck your block... may still smoke even after new rings... ive seen it a ton of time... spend the money so there are problems and you wont have to waste money,, cause in the end you will have to spend it anyways..
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:24 PM   #12
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

i'm surprised some people even have a solution to do this LOL. but if you do it bro, please tell us what went wrong after youre done so we dont have to learn from your mistake. or just do it right and do a complete overhaul of your engine
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:40 PM   #13
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

there are tools that you can attach toa power drill and it will hone your cylinder (certainly not as good as a machine hone, but a cross hatch pattern nonetheless)

http://www.amazon.com/83mm-Flex-Hone.../dp/B003759T48

or the exact one they have in shops - an even hand

http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-15000-En...1795968&sr=1-1
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:49 PM   #14
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

My friend's dad has both of those, and actually bought them from amazon, BUT, the top one sucks ***** and its worth it.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

I have done countless in-chassis rebuilds on Honda motors, and I really mean countless. Unless building a race engine, there is rarely a reason to bore or replace main/thrust bearings, both surfaces last forever as long as the thing has not been run out of oil or had a HARD over heat.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:49 PM   #16
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

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Originally Posted by driftin4 View Post
I have done countless in-chassis rebuilds on Honda motors, and I really mean countless. Unless building a race engine, there is rarely a reason to bore or replace main/thrust bearings, both surfaces last forever as long as the thing has not been run out of oil or had a HARD over heat.
i'm sure many will dis agree. IMO the bearings do seem to last a while with minimal (if any) wear. yes race engines or serious performance engines need quality machine work. however, for those that want the best of the best reliability and best performance for their daily drivers, then machining is necessary. as is replacing parts. if you got a bearing out for inspection, put in a new one. why be cheap? piston rings do wear out he cylinder walls over time so they do need replacing from time to time. i personally keep my rides in top condition and my customers as well get the best recommendations. i recommend rebuilds but i advise of the costs as well. as a result i get many rebuild work orders. i did 29 full rebuilds last year. from a 1986 chevy el camino that passed california smog afterwards at a cost of i think 3800 bucks, to a 2001 accord. when it comes to a persons car there are some people who believe in preventive maintenance and then there are people who will go round and round trying to save costs. the later ones always seem to have car problems or cars that dont run the greatest. but peoples opinions will often be different. isnt that a great thing
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

Tell me the last time you saw a cylinder ridge in a honda engine???
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

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Tell me the last time you saw a cylinder ridge in a honda engine???
yesterday. seen 2 actually. in the machine shop i see about 40 blocks in there a day and i'm always looking at stuff. they have about 70 heads in there on average every day too. guess it depends on your sources as to how many you will see. i'm in the machine shop 2 or 3 days a week.
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:02 PM   #19
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

So you are telling me that you regularly see cylinder ridges in honda motors?? Well, I guess you must have seen far more honda motors than I did as a honda master tech..
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:15 PM   #20
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

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So you are telling me that you regularly see cylinder ridges in honda motors?? Well, I guess you must have seen far more honda motors than I did as a honda master tech..
yeah i grew up around the dealership...robertons honda actually. was a tech there when i turned 18. stayed 3 years. got into diesels too. worked with CARB on diesel emission stuff. i'm a consultant for CARB now regaurding diesel emission technology. and yeah i might see more than you. the shop i visit is one of the subs for roughly 60 dealers and countless other shops in los angeles california. they get alot of work.
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:49 AM   #21
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

I am also in your same situation. 1987 Honda Crx. D15A2. car had a major overheat, the head was machined and rebuilt, but im sure that the lower end has ring problems. but i did check the compression before i had the head off and it was around 120 for all 4 cylinders... but i just pulled the head again and there was about an inch of oil in cylinders 2&3 (those two pistons were down). couldn't be valve seals with that much oil, heck you could forget to put them in at all and the oil would burn out just as fast as its coming in. So it has to be rings right? brand new spark plugs and plugs 1-3 are all fouled from oil, cylinder 4's plug is still dry and brand new.

I just got the car, love it, its in great condition other than the above. its going to be my daily driver, from 60-100 miles a day. sounds like most would pull the engine. I was going to just leave it in and push the pistons out the top... replace the rings, use a dingle ball hone or one of those three stone ones to hone the cylinder, replace everything and go for it. But what does everyone think? normal hwy mileage, nothing fancy, car is here to get me from A to B with good MPG. im into the car for about $2,000 right now, dont want to through too much money into it, but i do want it done right and have this engine run like a champ...
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:16 AM   #22
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hello Bart View Post
it is not impossible to hone the block with the crank in.. you just have to turn the crank so that the crank is at its sideways position for each cylinder... it is possible to do exactly what you want to it.. only downfall is that there cannot be any actual machinework done to it...it is even possible to change the main bearings but once again, no machine work.. and after honing the block there must be a real good cleanup of all the parts....
I bolded the interesting text there.

Tell me how you will replace the main bearings while the tranny is still attached to the engine since that's really the only way the engine will hang solidly enough in the car while trying an in-chassis engine rebuild. Can you magically remove the crank while the tranny is still attached?

I just want to see you get to these with the crank in the engine:

Click the image to open in full size.

Also I cannot agree with everyone saying machining the block will be paramount. I have built an 11:1CR D16A6 from an engine that started off with 290,000 miles on it, and it burned oil like crazy as evidenced in pics here:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

After honing and dropping 89 Integra pistons in with their glorious +7.2cc domes - note the beautiful cross hatching in the cylinder bores:

Click the image to open in full size.

While I did do a complete teardown and rebuild utilizing all new Genuine Honda/Acura parts I did actually only hone the cylinders using ATF-Z1 fluid and a "dingleberry" hone attached to a Makita drill. My doing so was based on my distrust with area machine shops st the time (I later found a really good one lol) but the thing is that once assembled and ran, that D16A6 ran perfectly and still does to this day - EIGHT YEARS LAYER!!!

It got beat down every day in my former daily driven EF(s) and now resides in a Civic RT4WD wagon. It has never burned a drop of oil and never smoked from day one.

This flies in the face of the machine work *****.

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Old 05-12-2010, 08:36 AM   #23
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

Quote:
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I bolded the interesting text there.

Tell me how you will replace the main bearings while the tranny is still attached to the engine since that's really the only way the engine will hang solidly enough in the car while trying an in-chassis engine rebuild. Can you magically remove the crank while the tranny is still attached?

I just want to see you get to these with the crank in the engine:

Click the image to open in full size.






obviously you dont know crap and your a retart... so stop being stupid... please.... first off the crank will stay in place.. seeming that the trans is bolted to the black and since the input shaft is connected to the clutch assembly the crank is not going anywhere... with the main caps off... all you have to to is push the bearing opposite of the groove and it will spin out freely... spin the crank to clean, put some assembly lube as usual.. and slide the bearing back in place going in opposite of comming out so that the groove of the bearing and the black go back in place... put new bearing on the cap and torque back down... and all the 15,000 post's you did must have all been crap... ive been doing honda motors since 96' and been a toyota tech since 98' so you cant tell me crap about how anything works or will not work....
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hello Bart View Post
obviously you dont know crap and your a retart... so stop being stupid... please.... first off the crank will stay in place.. seeming that the trans is bolted to the black and since the input shaft is connected to the clutch assembly the crank is not going anywhere... with the main caps off... all you have to to is push the bearing opposite of the groove and it will spin out freely... spin the crank to clean, put some assembly lube as usual.. and slide the bearing back in place going in opposite of comming out so that the groove of the bearing and the black go back in place... put new bearing on the cap and torque back down... and all the 15,000 post's you did must have all been crap... ive been doing honda motors since 96' and been a toyota tech since 98' so you cant tell me crap about how anything works or will not work....
Whoa man tact and a grasp of the English language are not your strong suits, are they?

I asked you how you would do it, and rather than post a well mannered response you post some offensive personal attack - just shows what kind of person you are. I'm glad some hot headed moron such as yourself wouldn't be building an engine of mine. you probably go all standard bearings too, right? the best option is pulling the block - period. If you want to argue against that then I'm not the "retart" here.



Also don't even begin to compare you to me as it pertains to helpful posts on Honda-Tech. I've been helping people here for nearly ten years. A little research on your account shows that you haven't offered ANYTHING here. You've tried to sell some crap here and there, post in a few meet topics, etc. so you haven't begun to earn the ability to call me out for anything here.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:28 PM   #25
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Default Re: Pistons and rings without pulling the motor?

you were trying to tell me that it cant be done and trying to put it out like i was dumb... i read it a few time to make sure i wasnt trippin... you didnt ask how to...and if you see in my previous post's i said the best way to do it would to dissasemble everything, but thats now what they are asking....and it was an attack on me... read it again
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