marcellatwin

HELP PLEASE

Here's a quick run down. I'm changing the Driver side inner tie rod and everything went smoothly (as smooth as mechanical maintanence can be ) and discovered the steering rack boot that fits over most of the inner tie rod was torn, so had to leave the car in the rental auto shop stall overnight and order a new part. Got one from NAPA, came back and it didn't fit. The size of the ring that the end of the boot fits on is the same size as the boot's open end. Meaning you have to stretch it to fit it over. And there is little to no room for any tools or hands, and I have small hands. So the mechanics at the shop looked at it and couldn't do it, they ordered another part, from NAPA ironically, with a different part number and it was the same as mine. I work lots of hours and don't have time to work on the car when the shop is open so I'm loosing money every minute and no body has a solution. My last solution is ordering the boot from the Honda dealership, who say that aftermarket parts like NAPA parts are NOT good, especially when it comes to boots.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Much appriciated.

94 Honda Civic EX

tony_2018

It suppose to be tight fit, grease the inner part of that boot and than try sliding it over the inner tie rod again. It should help ease the pain.

marcellatwin

I've used WD-40, grease, etc. The boot is hella slick. It fits over the inner tie rod knuckle thing, but won't slide over the steering rack ring and groove that the boot fits in. Even the mechanics that have been doing this for 20 years are scratching their heads. The only hope I have is the NAPA "aftermarket" part is wrong and the Honda OEM part I ordered is right. The parts gets in tomorrow afternoon so either the next day or Saturday is the only time I might have to put it on.

Then slap on the brand new outer tie rod, wheel, alignment then hopefully everthing gets fixed with my wheel noise and shimmy.

Nave43

Try heating the rubber to make it more pliable? If your in ND im guessing its getting cold there by now, the temperature could be fighting against you on this one. If nothing else you could zip-tie down the end just long enough to get it home. Then do it right?

Pictures would help.

Also dont use WD-40 on that boot. It will deteriorate it and you will be doing this all over again in a few years.... Silicone is your friend.

TomCat39

Does lithium based molybdenum disulphide grease have the same issue on rubber?

OP I would suggest getting it towed home if nothing else and do it in your drive way, that way time is less of an issue. Not sure if that is feasible for you but it would be what I would probably end up doing.

Nave43

I am not sure, but i was told that anything with metal in it like lithium or moly is bad for older Honda rubber. The only grease i could find reference to being 100% safe on Honda rubber is non petroleum based silicone grease. There is actually alot of debate on the topic so i cant say for certain... I need a friend who is a chemical engineer...

Also i dont know what they are charging him to park it there. But tow trucks arent cheap. That one would be a financial balancing act... If he could just get it together long enough to get it home. IMHO that would be the ultimate.

Lastly the boots are from NAPA not Honda so, even more variables... Its surprisingly hard to get a straight answer about something that seams so straight forward.

Former User

You must create thread titles that summarizes the tech issue - title edited.

In my experience, aftermarket boots are crap. Buy the Honda boot. They also install easier.

crvtectim

I just went through this the other night and def took some patience. Driver's side has no room except for your fingers. I was using aftermarket boots too, but compared to the Honda ones the openings looked the same. I lubed up the inside of the boot, which I see you've done. Then I figured out how to jam some fingers on each side of the boot. I started to one-side the boot on, starting at the bottom. Then while holding that in place, you'll have to get behind the first ring of the boot and push towards the rack. It should expand enough to jump onto the rack and in the groove. Good luck.

tony_2018

Take a picture of old and new boots.

marcellatwin

Thank you guys sooo much for the replies, all of this is helping. I'm new to forums so thanks RonJ@HT for editing the title.

The situation as of now. When the mechanics ordered their boot from NAPA as well, different part number, they couldn't get it on. I then called the Honda dealership and asked how are you going to get it on, before I tow it and give it to you. They immediatly said they use boots from the Honda distributer of OEM parts, they didn't know the manufacture, so I ordered it (third boot's a charm haha) and will get here later today. Yesterday I put on the old tie rod and tightened stuff down enough to drive it from the Hobby shop to my squadron parking lot, a couple hundred meters away. It will now sit there until Friday or Saturday when I get a chance to work on it at the hobby shop (they are only open till 5pm on weekdays, when I get off, and only open 5 hours on Sat). Hopefully the OEM part works, if so I'll stop using aftermarket stuff when it comes to simple things (except for performance upgrades ), then I'll yell at NAPA.

If I still have trouble I'll use all the tips you guys gave me. Heating up, fingers, etc. I went to O'Rielys last night and they didn't have straight silicon grease, so they gave me a bunch of little packets of what they said is silicon grease. It's the stuff you are suppose to put in the Ignition wires to slide on the spark plug, I think.

I didn't know about the WD-40, so thanks. I'm new to this stuff so thanks. Learned something new each day: don't use aftermarket boots and don't use WD-40 on rubber/

Now back to my day job and I'll keep you guys updated.

deschlong

iTrader: (8)

Didn't fit, you say? Hmm, I also need to do this repair. What I thought was going to be easy, turns out to be hard. Surprise surprise.

What was the part you ordered the third time? And what were the NAPA part numbers you tried? I want to cross-reference. Thx!

marcellatwin

UPDATE:

So I just got the parts from Honda. It looks like the same thing but I don't have both in my hands right now. I will take some pics of both of them together and of the install. I won't be able to do it till Friday and Saturday.


deschlong:
Here is the part I got from the Napa store:

NAPA AUTO PARTS

And here is the part that the mechanics ordered from Napa:

NAPA AUTO PARTS

The third part was from the Honda dealership. Same thing they would buy if I towed it there and had them do it.

I'll do a write up of the process for you on this thread, but it won't have pics. There's plenty of other threads out there that I learned from before attempting this, but none on this specific car.

MadVladCivic

I replaced my driver's side rack n pinion boot 2-3wks ago. The end
that attaches to the rack side is a bitch to slide on---it is a tight
fit + there is limited access. Grease the inside circumference
of the boot w/ some lithium grease (I used Havoline specified
for suspension and CV joint work). It contained moly as well I believe.
Once it does slide on, it is gud und tight. Actually drove it for
awhile wo/ the clamp as the Oetiker ear clamps I have did not fit.
Used a tie wrap as a temp fix until I can get a proper size ear clamp.

Ordered the boot from Honda.

marcellatwin

Hopefully these are an actual fit compared to the Napa ones. I'll have to go get some grease, thanks. Because I can't get a band clamp tool back there, I'm forced to use just a zip tie or two. Apparently the Honda dealership said they do the same.

88CRX_SiR

You're gonna have to stretch the boot to get it to fit over the steering rack. I had to do it on my EG even with OEM boots. it's a major pain in the *** but it will go on. Start one part and then use a flathead screw driver to help you get it stretched on.

MadVladCivic

An Oetiker ear-type clamp can be added after the boot is applied.
All you need is a pair of end nip pliers to tighten it. I tried size
CV56 but that was a bit small. Fit perfectly around the boot
before it was installed on the car.....

Getting the smaller spring clip on is easy. Just grease the lip of the
boot and guide w/ a small flathead screwdriver.

The Oetiker ear type clamp that looks to fit is the 16300029 (aka 62). Range is 53.5mm - 62.0 mm.

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

PUT THE RING ON THE BOOT FIRST... THEN SLIDE IT OVER THE TIE ROD WITH THE RING ALREADY ON...


Nothing at all wrong with NAPA boots except they give you zip ties for the inner boot securing straps. I've used them for a EK and a DC.



edit: wait are you talking about the lip on the steering rack referring to that as a "ring"? If so just push the ****** on. Seriously.

tony_2018

Just grease the ID of the boot and slide that sucker in, lubing is nothing new so this shouldn't require any instructions.

crvtectim

Zip ties work fine. Good luck, op. You just didn't hold your mouth right before. You'll get it this time.

central09er

Well the part numbers you posted.... one was for power steering and the other manual steering? So is it manual or power and what year and is it an ex, lx or what? I just feel like you may have the wrong part because the info given was not right or the person looking it up didn't know what they are doing.. or it could just be that tight of a fit

marcellatwin

I just checked the part numbers and they are both for power steering, but one is for the 1.6L and the other is 1.4 or 1.5L. But it has power steering, and is the EX model. But since I bought the car at 200k miles, there is a possiblity I thought of, someone at some point could have changed the steering rack at one point, but I don't know, it's just a theory.

UPDATE:
Well folks, today is the day. Today I will have just 45 minutes after work to try to put it on. Hopefully it all goes well and clean and no issues. Cause if not, I don't know what I'm going to do. I'll try to take pics of the ordeal and keep you guys updated since some of you seem to need to do the same thing. I'm also going to be getting new tires today as well. Toyo Extensa A/S. So hard to find that size tire for this car. 185/60HR14 lol, so small.

Thank you, some of you, for the vote of confidence. I still so new at working on cars that minor hickups are a big deal to me. Thanks again and I'll keep you updated later tonight.

tony_2018

You can't outfit a 92-95 civic rack on a 96-00 unless you swap the subframe. Take a picture of the subframe so we can verify it for you.

marcellatwin

UPDATE:

HALLELUJAH!!!! The boot went on, HELLS YEAH, I seriously looked around for someone to tell how happy I was, all that stressing out, and no body was there, haha, the auto shop was empty, closing up, and I was the only one there, hahahaha. Anywho, so the advice on lithium or silicon grease helped. O'Reily's didn't have any of that so they gave me packets of Dielectric Spark Plug Wire grease for sliding it on the spark plug. Either way it worked, went on over the inner tie rod super easy, compared to the Napa part which I couldn't slide over, had to thread it on. Then with about 5 mins of fumbling, I got it on. Zip tied it on the back and put the ring on the front to secure it. You can tell the rubber is MUCH more pliable and flexible, compared to the almost HARD rubber of the Napa one. And the Napa part had a was visibly smaller hole than the Honda part. I'll stick with OEM for now on. But once I tried to put on the breather hose, I dropped the tiny clamp and couldn't find it. I then ran out of time and had to leave the shop and the car on the lift. So tomorrow will be up bright and early to finish the job and take pics and write the rest of the job up. If I can't find the clamp, I'll use heat shrink, electric tape, quick clamps for vacuum hoses, etc, whatever to keep it on there, any suggestions?

Thank you all for your advice and confidence, you really did help me through this. I will return the favor with pics and writing it up as best as I can. I appreciate the write ups you guys put up with pics, that's how I learned and felt confident enough to try mechanics on my own. So I will reciprocate that. Again thank you and wait till tomorrow for the rest of the story :D

crvtectim

Good job, man. As for the clamp, the flare on the boot end would probably hold it just fine. But you could wrap some mechanics' wire around it to secure it. Twist it tight with some needle nose pliers and snip off the excess. For future ref., you can leave that tiny clamp on the line and slide everything over the flare. Nothing gets lost that way.

marcellatwin

UPDATE:

So the job is complete and crisis averted. I have on a brand new outer and inner tie rod, new steering boot, 4 new tires, and an alignment done. The car runs super smooth, handles well (for 20 year old suspension), drives as straight, and rides much quieter and smoother.

To bring people up to date, I bought the car with 196k miles on it and immediately notices a "whah-whah" at speed. Thinking it was a bearing (since I've replaced 3 out of 4 on my other car, an 07 Ford Focus) I had it checked out. Come to find out it was the inner tie rod on the left side. Which caused the right side tire to wear down to baldness. When I did my first oil change on the car, I rotated and balanced the tires, noticing that the tires were 9 years old and had some cracks on them and major cupping. I bought me the tie rods and attempted my most ambitious mechanical adventure ever this past week. After a week of messing around with the boot, I finally got it on and the tie rods replaced. As I drove it to town (20 miles from the shop I worked on it) I noticed the noise and wheel shaking was still there. 20 miles at 30 mph on a 70 mph highway was not fun. My theory was that the tires were shot, so I stopped by a tire shop and bought brand new Toyo Extensa A/S (4 x 185/60HR14) and had them mounted. After that I drove it to the Honda dealership for an alignment. Got it aligned and drove it home. Got up to 95 mph on the freeway and I never thought the car would be so smooth and straight and stable at that speed. I'm sooooo happy.

So here's how I finished it. Once I got the new boot on I zip tied it with the zip tie Honda provided and clipped the excess. I attached a small vacuum hose clamp to the air breather hose first, then put it on the little nipple on the boot, pulling down the clamp as far down as it will go, then check to see if the hose would come off, seemed pretty tight. And thanks for the suggestions for next time. I placed the clip on the outer edge of the boot. I put anti-seize on the inner tie rod, then screwed on the new outer tie rod locking nut and the new outer tie rod. It took me 17 turns to take it off, so I turned it 17 times to put it on, and it was pretty dead set. Driving to the alignment shop later, the car barely strayed off straight and true. I then put the outer tie rod ball joint in the knuckle (ball joint came pre-greased), put some anti-seize on the threads (in hind sight probably didn't need that, but oh well) placing the new castle nut on and torquing it down to 50-60 Nm or 36-43 ft-lbs. I kept torquing it down till the threads allowed the couter in through. Placed the new couter pin through and bent it around. Tighten the outer tie rod locking nut down. Put the wheel back on and torqued the lug nuts then I was done and off to the tire store for new tires and an alignment. All done and super happy.

Thank you all for your advice and encouragement through all this, and thanks for your patience. I took pics, but it won't let me upload the pictures, it loads then says Alert: Can't upload picture. Weird. I'm probably not doing something correct, and if I figure it out, then I will post them. Not onto another thread or more reading to solve my next issue; hole in the exhaust pipe, so time for an upgrade